Showing posts with label Adventists. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Adventists. Show all posts

Tuesday, June 16, 2015

Seventh-day Adventists and Women's Ordination


This issue is heating the SDA church up.



Even Washington Post has commented on this.



My opinion as a former Adventist about the SDA crisis of Women's Ordination:

Okay, first off, understand my heart is really in this for them. I think this is a pivotal time and I am praying about this. I love my Adventist brother and sisters in Christ. This is not coming from a point of anything but truly wanting them to unify with the entire Body of Christ. I want the best for them.

So, some philosophy for a minute. I have read over and over where Adventists who are pro-Women's Ordination that think people who don't want it are being old and stodgy. And visa versa. They say unity above everything. They mock those who feel so passionately about this one way or the other that they are willing to walk over this. I say walk! Do not compromise on this if you believe it to be a moral issue!
 If you don't, you shouldn't make fun of other people's sincere heartfelt beliefs on this. 

It is the HEIGHT of hypocrisy for Adventists to put unity before truth. Isn't that the entire reason they broke off from other churches? Remember they are Protestants! They base everything on the fact that one doesn't compromise--you break from a "wrong" church. Isn't that why they won't unify with their brothers and sisters in other churches? They are the first to break out in hysteria if anyone else suggests that unity should usurp moral principle or conscience.

If you believe this to be a moral issue. Walk out. Protest. Don't compromise on moral issues. 



Now, having said that, I don't believe for the SDA church this is a moral issue. (And may I stress strongly, I believe it is a moral issue... just not for the SDA church.) Within their framework, within their heterodoxy, they are already so far from the mark of truth, that this doesn't even register compared to their other theological errors. This is like the Amish arguing whether they should allow computers in their businesses or not.

Secondly, and away from the first point, I see this as a possible great awakening for our SDA brothers and sisters. If there is a division... is it possible (and I tends towards romanticism probably) but what if... what if this helps open the eyes of a few Adventists and they join the full Body of Christ? What a miracle that would be?

Am I being overly hopeful? Is it a sin to want disunity for another denomination? I feel awful. It is like hoping someone will take a fall on their first motorcycle ride so they won't get back on and possibly kill themselves one day. I don't know, I am truly praying for the right attitude.

As much as I believe in the unity of believers, Adventism is a sect who refuses to take advantage of the spiritual wisdom of their older brothers and sisters in Christ. They are the petulant teenagers of Christendom. If there is any break in their stubbornness--perhaps they will find their way back home. Even a few....

I ask everyone out there--former Adventists as well as Evangelicals and Catholics, etc.--to please pray for the SDA church at this time. May God's will be done and may their eyes be opened to the wholeness of truth of the gospel. 

Tuesday, February 10, 2015

ADVENTISTS AND ABORTION SERIES BY SDA WHITE HORSE PRODUCTIONS!

Calling all pro-life Adventists! This is your chance to change your denomination BACK to its original pro-life position. Support this and then call the GC and demand the church become officially pro-life. Demand that all SDA hospitals stop performing abortions-on-demand. Demand that one of the worlds most notorious abortionists, Edward Allred's name be taken off the business building dedicated to him at La Sierra University. This is your chance! Take it!

Here's the link: Adventists and Abortion

Friday, May 23, 2014

PRESIDENT BEN CARSON, HOW'S THAT SOUND?



Weekly Standard Asks If Dr. Ben Carson Is Warming Up For Presidential Run?

Evidently his answer is yes! Good!



I have a dream. 

For various reasons I have a dream that his man will soon be addressed by some young, nervous journalist in a press conference by: "Dr. President, sir…"

That may sound weird to my former Adventist friends. How could I, knowing all I do about how Adventists think, want one as head of our nation? 

Firstly out of sheer pragmatism. He's ardently, fervently pro-life and I could care less about our theological differences if he is willing to stop the slaughter of our unborn. As a world-acclaimed physician, his voice would hold authority on biological life and as a black man, he could stem the abortion genocide against his own race.

Secondly, I'm patriotic. Dr. Carson would make a terrific president. So yes, I would not only vote for, but pray for and financially back a Dr. Carson presidency.

Thirdly, I am a Catholic who does not want to support Obamacare on religious grounds and I believe he would be very strong in his commitment to religious freedom. (Anyone see the irony here? A SDA defending Catholic religious freedom? Ellen White is clapping in Purgatory!)








Additionally, to my former Adventists out there, think of the brilliance of a Dr. Carson presidency. Let us dream for a moment, shall we?….

Carson: The Candidacy

For several years during the campaign, the Seventh-day Adventist Church would get the spotlight. They would become the center of the world's attention, just as their prophecy foretells. Many Adventists would see it as God's way of sending the Sabbath Message across the globe right before His Second Coming. 

Others would herald it as the fulfillment of Ellen White's prophecy of a worldwide persecution of Adventists, for if a Carson presidency became unpopular, the world would rise against the SDA church in retaliation. You would then see the release of many Youtube videos claiming the Vatican was plotting the overthrow of Carson and his Sabbatarian believers.

However, in reality what would happen is that Adventist doctrines would come into the light. You would have national talk show hosts and talking heads mystified at what Adventists believe and the General Conference would be sending out spokesmen to "clarify" what their prophetess's health message and visions meant in today's world. 

Think of it. Rush Limbaugh would be talking to Adventists. Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, Megan Kelly would all be spotlighting Adventism. Ellen Degeneres would be talking about Ellen White. Adventism would be the butt of jokes for Jimmy Kimmel, Jimmy Falon, Conan O'brien, Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert, HBO and Comedy Central. 

Doug Batchelor would be arguing homosexuality and women's ordination on James Robison's show and Randy Roberts might be interviewed by the Huffington Post. 3ABN and the Hope Channel numbers would double because of new, drive-by viewers. The SDA church would be hearing its name everywhere at first.

Then Adventists all over the world would be upset because either the press would be making them look like kooks or the SDA spokesmen would be watering down the everlasting gospel. 

Many Adventists would be embarrassed as their doctrines are exposed to critical thinking and theological review and many might either leave the church or no longer claim to be SDA. However, the church would issue glorious statements that many are coming into the church because of a Carson presidential bid.

But in my dreams, SDA theology is clearly spelled out in the open and kind, godly theologians would give the true historical context of why Sunday is observed and Adventists would have to defend the indefensible. Faithful Adventists would have to put their brain into a fog of white noise to avoid hearing the truth or accept that perhaps they weren't told the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Then, they might observe that no one is upset with them. They might observe that the world is full of kind Christians who would not just vote for an Adventist but would support him and even though they may reject some of his theology, they would stand up for his right to believe in Sabbatarianism. 

Carson: The Commander-in-Chief

For eight years the Adventist Church would be in sublime misery, for they would get all the attention they have always wanted, but at the same time, they would be infighting about whether the president should go to this or that political event on Friday night or break the levitical clean meat laws while visiting China. 

A new SDA conspiracy would come out each month and each new conspiracy would prove to be foolishness. Then as President Carson would leave the office with much admiration and honors and criticism, the Adventists would be scratching their heads wondering what happened. 

Nothing. 

No one would be coming after them with pitchforks. No one would be plotting their Sabbatarian martyrdom. They would find that there are millions of wonderful Christians out there who love them and accept them and care not one whit about the day they worship. 

There may be another great disappointment in store for the Adventists in this dream. The great disappointment that Christians love them and will never hurt them. That there are Christians out there who understand theology and the Bible better than they do and are not deceived or breaking a commandment by not attending church on Saturday. 

Adventism couldn't seclude itself from other Christians anymore. Adventists would be outed. Everyone would know what they believe, there would be no cover. People would discuss what they believe without perilous outcomes for the Adventist.

(Big breath, sigh…)

Then, my dream ends with unity. 

Adventists, Baptists, Catholics, Methodists, Anglicans, non-denominational believers will beat their weapons into plowshares and embrace each other in the grace and unity of Christ and then the world will know that Jesus is the Son of God because of this miracle. 

Yes, I dream big….

All because of a Dr. Carson presidency.


 ___________________________




Dr. Carson on The View:




Petition Dr. Carson to run here.

Dr. Carson's Website here.

Saturday, April 19, 2014

Holy Saturday a Sermon by St. Peter




It was my first Easter outside of Adventism and everything was strange. Someone had invited me to Holy Saturday services. I thought that was going to be weird, "Sunday keepers" going to church on Sabbath. All things seemed topsy-turvy. But I went. It was an Episcopalian Church. Very beautiful, very old. In fact, our first president was said to have worshipped there when he was a 16-year-old surveyor for Virginia. But as I sat down among all the people, things were about to get older… much older.

The Protestant pastor began to read an ancient sermon and the more he read, the more my mouth opened in shock. I almost wanted to shake my head and way myself up. The pastor claimed that this was one of the Apostle Peter's first sermons. And it was a doozy… actually, for a former Seventh-day Adventist, it was absolutely unbelievable. 

A sermon of St. Peter that wasn't in the Bible? Could it be true? Why hadn't I heard of the sermon? I had to talk to the pastor about this. So I waited as he shook everyone's hand after church and then approached him with my questions. Sure enough, this sermon had been read in Christian Holy Saturday services for as long as the church has records. It was indeed the most ancient sermon we have outside of scripture. And all accounts are that Peter himself gave it on one of the early Holy Saturday services. 

I still am awed by what the sermon actually says. I hope you will be just as moved as I was. The sermon is posted here:


The Lord's descent into hell
"What is happening? Today there is a great silence over the earth, a great silence, and stillness, a great silence because the King sleeps; the earth was in terror and was still, because God slept in the flesh and raised up those who were sleeping from the ages. God has died in the flesh, and the underworld has trembled.

Truly he goes to seek out our first parent like a lost sheep; he wishes to visit those who sit in darkness and in the shadow of death. 


He goes to free the prisoner Adam and his fellow-prisoner Eve from their pains, he who is God, and Adam's son.

The Lord goes in to them holding his victorious weapon, his cross. When Adam, the first created man, sees him, he strikes his breast in terror and calls out to all: 'My Lord be with you all.' And Christ in reply says to Adam: ‘And with your spirit.’ And grasping his hand he raises him up, saying: ‘Awake, O sleeper, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give you light.

‘I am your God, who for your sake became your son, who for you and your descendants now speak and command with authority those in prison: Come forth, and those in darkness: Have light, and those who sleep: Rise.


‘I command you: Awake, sleeper, I have not made you to be held a prisoner in the underworld. Arise from the dead; I am the life of the dead. Arise, O man, work of my hands, arise, you who were fashioned in my image. Rise, let us go hence; for you in me and I in you, together we are one undivided person.

‘For you, I your God became your son; for you, I the Master took on your form; that of slave; for you, I who am above the heavens came on earth and under the earth; for you, man, I became as a man without help, free among the dead; for you, who left a garden, I was handed over to Jews from a garden and crucified in a garden.

‘Look at the spittle on my face, which I received because of you, in order to restore you to that first divine inbreathing at creation.
See the blows on my cheeks, which I accepted in order to refashion your distorted form to my own image.

'See the scourging of my back, which I accepted in order to disperse the load of your sins which was laid upon your back. See my hands nailed to the tree for a good purpose, for you, who stretched out your hand to the tree for an evil one.

I slept on the cross and a sword pierced my side, for you, who slept in paradise and brought forth Eve from your side. My side healed the pain of your side; my sleep will release you from your sleep in Hades; my sword has checked the sword which was turned against you.

‘But arise, let us go hence. The enemy brought you out of the land of paradise; I will reinstate you, no longer in paradise, but on the throne of heaven. I denied you the tree of life, which was a figure, but now I myself am united to you, I who am life. I posted the cherubim to guard you as they would slaves; now I make the cherubim worship you as they would God.
"The cherubim throne has been prepared, the bearers are ready and waiting, the bridal chamber is in order, the food is provided, the everlasting houses and rooms are in readiness; the treasures of good things have been opened; the kingdom of heaven has been prepared before the ages."




A reading from an ancient homily for Holy Saturday
Prayer

Almighty, ever-living God, whose Only-begotten Son descended to the realm of the dead, and rose from there to glory, grant that your faithful people, who were buried with him in baptism, may, by his resurrection, obtain eternal life.
(We make our prayer) through our Lord.
(Through Christ our Lord.)





Prepared by Pontifical University Saint Thomas Aquinas
http://www.vatican.va/spirit/documents/spirit_20010414_omelia-sabato-santo_en.html

Friday, November 8, 2013

Revelation Today 2013: Ron Halverson Speaker

When I attempt some  constructive criticism of Seventh-day Adventist televangelists usually these men are within a decade or so of my age, so I don't feel my critique is disrespectful to an elder. But this year, I am cringing because Revelation Today, the  annual Seventh-day Adventist seminar for proselytizing,  is being performed by Pastor Ron Halvorsen. (I wince.) 

Pastor Ron was the pastor of the Keene Seventh-day Adventists Church in Texas when I grew up. We often drove from Dallas to the little Adventist town to see relatives and attend the yearly camp meetings.  

Keene was a scary place back then because it was so wild compared to Dallas. So it needed Pastor Halvorsen. I remember the scandal of the Keene SDA teenagers sitting up in the balcony gambling during his fiery sermons. I heard that once he stopped in mid sentence at the pulpit, stomped up there and confronted the kids! I kept up with whom his son was dating, because I planned on marrying a pastor (I was called to be a pastor's wife, I thought) and figured he was a prospect, a tall, tall prospect. (Ron, Jr is like six foot ten or something.) 

Then years later when my family moved to Keene so that we could all attend the Adventist college there, that same son, Pastor Ron Halvorsen, Jr., was my pastor.  I think the world of all the Halvorsens and wouldn't want in any way to insult them. So I am praying I can write this in a way that is not seen as disrespectful,  mean-spirited or personally critical. But it will, I am afraid. It's part of the pain of constructive criticism. It never seems constructive. 

Well… on to it and I pray I can write this as sweetly as I mean it. 

This year's Daniel and Revela-thon is being held in Charlotte, North Carolina and is basically the same old, same old. A few weeks of building up to tell us that: we soul-sleep after death, we are being judged investigatively  we need to worship on Sabbath and the mark of the beast is popery. And Adventists are all going to be persecuted for keeping the Sabbath by Catholics and Apostate Protestantism. 

[My family really tries to make it seem like the Adventist church is past its Ellen White last-day prophecies. But it's not.  These seminars prove it year after year.]

I know many Adventists sincerely believe their doctrines. They were weaned on them and are utterly convicted of them and are loyal to the deepest parts of their souls to this message. And they will go to their deaths believing the SDA message is solidly Biblical. But the message is founded upon false information. It is largely based from the mind of a young, uneducated woman who was in a accident and suffered "visions" as a result of a tragic head wound.
The SDA prophetess Ellen G. White twisted history and the Bible to fit what she thought she was being "shown" in visions by her accompanying angel. 

And Revelation Today is recycling these same old inaccuracies.

It is hard for me to understand how grown-ups can  blindly pass on historical fiction year after year. I am so embarrassed for them. It makes them look like cultists. I just don't get it. These men all seemed so much smarter and more holy than me! They were who I looked up to as a kid. And they, I pray, are just either completely blind to the inaccuracies of what they preach or they are, gulp…not brave enough to face the truth. But that turns my world upside down. They were my heroes! They are supposed to be teaching me these things. 

But for the sake of those who might really want to know the truth about the SDA yearly mantra of Daniel and Revelation prophecies, I will force myself to comment.

I hope that refuting a few of Elder Halvorsen's claims will be enough to prove the entire SDA theology suspect and unreliable. And to make certain this post isn't too long, I will be linking you to some answers rather than reposting them here.  

We'll deal with the Mark of the Beast, one of the last of this year's topics. 

To watch the video I am discussing, click here:
  • At minute 38 in the video, Pastor Halvorsen begins to identify the remnant of Revelation 12:17 as those who keep the commandments. (Spoiler alert: It will be the SDA church. Adventists teach that they alone are the remnant church.) 

This is wrong because Adventists really only teach one of the ten commandments: the fourth. I have never heard another Revelation Seminar dedicated to preaching that adultery, stealing, coveting or idolatry is a sin. They focus on one commandment. And notice the text says that the remnant are those who keep--not teach--the commandments. How many Adventists would admit they keep all ten commandments? The remnant keep them, not preach them. 

Also, the official SDA church's position on abortion is pro-choice and some of their  hospitals do abortions on demand. Therefore, they are exactly like all other churches they claim only keep nine of the ten. Because of the "thou shalt not murder" commandment (that would include abortion), Adventists cannot consider themselves a ten commandment preaching church.

At minute 45, Pastor Halvorsen refers to the Donation of Constantine which is a document known to be a hoax for centuries. Even if it were an authentic document, the mythical exchange wasn't even what the pastor presented it as. The Donation of Constantine didn't give Pope Sylvester rule over the empire, it was an honorific.  When Constantine died, he gave the empire over to his four sons. 

  • As always, much is made about the pope being called the "vicar of Christ." Which is simply used to show that the pope represents Christ. 
Here's a video that gives a short explanation of how Catholics see the church which might help Pastor Halvorsen understand why some of his accusations are false:




What we need to realize is what the word Christian means. In Antioch where followers of Christ were first called Christians, it was to mock them as being little Christs. Little Christs would be as much as a title of authority of Christ as vicar! We are in one sense all vicars (representatives) of Christ on earth.

  • Then Revelation 13: 3 prophecy that the "world wandered after the beast" was introduced (the papacy.) Can you show me when the entire world was following the papacy? Never. Christendom was only in the west. And please read history. The Vatican was always in a power struggle with the Catholic kings. They never had any real ubiquitous power. 

Then the SDA interpretation of Rev. 12:14, "times, time and half a time" as the beginning and end of papal rule. This 1260 day prophecy timeline of papal power supposedly began in 538. Yet, Pastor Halvorsen just "proved" the papacy was given power in 318 AD with the Donation of Constantine? So, which is it? Why would the fall of Rome two centuries later be when the papacy gained its power? And then the fatal "wound" was when Emperor Napoleon took the pope into captivity (1798). 


Yet why not choose the wounding of the papacy as the 14th century captivity of the popes in France? Why not choose the sack of Rome by Catholic Charles V in the 16th century or when the papal states were taken away in the 19th century? These were much bigger wounds to the Vatican than Napoleon's. The Vatican has been under siege many times and lost and won back its power. The use of Napoleon as the point where the papacy was "wounded to death" and the 1929 Concordat with  Mussolini as the definitive moment the wound was healed is simply picking out dates to make things fit SDA eschatology.  The pope lost power and land many times and it made concordats with many nations before WWII. These dates are forced and contrived.

  • Then Pastor Halvorsen perpetuated the myth that the Catholic Church killed 50 million people as heretics. (I don't blame the pastor, his sermon topics were already predetermined.)
  • The pastor attacked (as it has become almost obligatory)  the sacrament of confession to a priest.
Here's a bit of a rebuttal on that. Then came the idea that the pope believes himself to be God on earth and the attempt with some misunderstood quotes pulled from billions of words written by the popes. The pope claims to have the chair of Peter. The pope isn't God nor teaches that he is.

Were there a few popes (out of the 266 that have faithfully served God) that abused their power and acted as if they thought they were God? Maybe even written that way? Yes. But look to official titles, official theology. Pulling a few quotes from the ocean of written material by the popes and cardinals and priests to force a point that perhaps one isolated pope or priest or bishop thought the way the SDA's prophecy needed them to think…. is simply bad history.

That would be like a Catholic pulling a quote from Doug Batchelor reporting that the televangelists admits publicly that the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists went against scripture and promoted women's ordination. Or quoting Cliff Goldstein about evolution and then assigning his position to all Adventists. Bad form.
  •  As far as the pope's title "Vicar of the Son of God": 
The Latin, "Vicarius Fili Dei" is not and never has been an official title of the pope, nor is there any evidence that it was imprinted on a tiara. (All photographic evidence have proven to be hoaxed.) Yet, even if it had been an unofficial title, is that truly evidence that the pope is the antichrist? What is so amazing is that Pastor Halvorsen doesn't tell you that Ellen G. White's name adds up to 666 also! ELLen GoVLD VVhIte 50+50+5+50+500+5+5+1=666).
Vicarius Christi is one of the popes titles and it adds up to 214. So the SDA church has some real credibility problems here. Keep in mind that the antichrist isn't mentioned in Revelation. The number of the beast isn't directly related to the antichrist, that is a conflation of the two. In his letters, St. John warns that the antichrist denies that Jesus is the Christ. (I John 2: 22) and that Jesus if from God (I John 4:3) and that He came in the flesh (2 John 1:7). No pope I know of denied these things.

St. John also clearly says that the antichrist comes out of the true church. So if the antichrist comes from the Catholic church it would identify the Catholic Church as the true one. If the SDA church would like to think of itself as the true remnant church, then they would predict the antichrist comes out of it. (Perhaps being a former Adventist.)
  • One of the persistent claims by the Adventists is the idea that some pope or church decree changed the seventh-day Sabbath to the first day of the week. Completely false. The Catholic Church did not change the Sabbath to Sunday
Link: The official documentation. I would extend a challenge to my SDA friends about the supposed change of the Sabbath. And, here's a link the early church writings about the Sabbath and Sunday.
It is hard to watch people I love perpetuate distortions and mislead Christians. And do not be naive, Adventists target ignorant Catholics. They are not out there bringing the gospel message, they are trying to bring all  Christians into their church by convincing them that other churches haven't really been obedient to Christ and scripture. Every other church is Babylon. 
They alone are not apostate from truth. They twist history and scripture to convince other Christians that they are the true and only remnant. 

What is heartbreaking is that by their zealousness to confuse and mislead other Christians they break the commandment, "thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbors."

I hurt for the Halvorsens because I love them. I don't write that flippantly. Ron, Jr. has helped me out in ways he will never know. He is a good man.

Yet…. (despairing sigh) Pastor Halvorsen is  leading the children of God into error. This is a very, very serious situation, for God says it is better that a millstone be place upon the neck of one who leads the little ones astray. He is bearing false witness against his Catholic and Protestant neighbors.

















Friday, August 9, 2013

TOP TEN MELODRAMATIC ELLEN WHITE QUOTES ON THE SINS OF EATING





There is something about character of Hyacinth on the British comedy Keeping Up Appearances that reminds me of Ellen White. Hyacinth invites her kind neighbor over for coffee but so over-emphasizes the importance of her china that the neighbor is made miserable for fear of dropping and breaking her cup.  

Ellen White has a way of taking a basically sound principle and theologically spotlighting it to the point that it gives you heartburn just to read her writings on the subject. You'll see what I mean as I count down the top ten most melodramatic and exaggerated theology-of-eating quotes from Ellen White's book Counsels on Diet and Food between pages 49 through 64. 

Please keep in mind as you are reading. Ellen, like many food gurus of her time, thought there was a direct link between eating and immorality. The idea was that if food digested slowly, it would overstimulate the bowels making one obsessed with sex. 

Intemperance in eating and in drinking, and the indulgence of base passions, have benumbed the fine sensibilities, so that sacred things have been placed upon a level with common things.
Those who permit themselves to become slaves to a gluttonous appetite, often go still farther, and debase themselves by indulging their corrupt passions, which have become excited by intemperance in eating and in drinking. They give loose rein to their debasing passions, until health and intellect greatly suffer. The reasoning faculties are, in a great measure, destroyed by evil habits.Spiritual Gifts 4a:124, 131, 1864 {CD 62.}

(SDAs: No offense intended. Just needed to lighten things up around here... and also italics are mine.)

Countdown Begins:

No. 10: The Great Sins of Old--Appetite!

The people who lived before the flood ate animal food, and gratified their lusts until their cup of iniquity was full, and God cleansed the earth of its moral pollution by a flood.... The same sins of gluttony and drunkenness benumbed the moral sensibilities of the inhabitants of Sodom, so that crimes seemed to be the delight of the men and women of that wicked city....[Christ] would lay before us the danger of making eating and drinking paramount. He reveals the result of giving up to indulgence of appetite. The moral powers are enfeebled, so that sin does not appear sinful. Crimes are winked at, and base passions control the mind, until general corruption roots out good principles and impulses, and God is blasphemed. All this is the result of eating and drinking to excess.... The transgression of God’s commandments has caused His prospering hand to be removed. {CD 60, 61}(Spiritual Gifts 4a:121, 1864) 

No. 9: Don't Indulge Your Pastor's Appetite!

Some persons bring upon the campground food that is entirely unsuitable to such occasions, rich cakes and pies, and a variety of dishes that would derange the digestion of a healthy laboring man.... The minister should decline this well-meant but unwise hospitality, even at the risk of seeming discourteous....They err when they tempt the minister with unhealthful food. Precious talent has thus been lost to the cause of God; and many, while they do live, are deprived of half the vigor and strength of their faculties. {CD 55.2}


No. 8: Sanctification is Controlling Appetite!

[Sanctification] requires that our habits of eating, drinking, and dressing be such as to secure the preservation of physical, mental, and moral health, that we may present to the Lord our bodies,—not an offering corrupted by wrong habits, but “a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God.” Our habits of eating and drinking show whether we are of the world or among the number whom the Lord by His mighty cleaver of truth has separated from the world. It is intemperance in eating that causes so much invalidism, and robs the Lord of the glory due Him. Because of a failure to deny self, many of God’s people are unable to reach the high standard of spirituality He has set for them, and though they repent and are converted, all eternity will testify to the loss they have sustained by yielding to selfishness.—Letter 135, 1902, The Review and Herald, January 25, 1881, Testimonies for the Church 6:372, 1900 {CD 57-58}

No. 7: You are Unworthy Because of Appetite!




If they will gratify a gross appetite, and by so doing blunt their sensibilities, and becloud their perceptive faculties so that they cannot appreciate the exalted character of God, or delight in the study of His word, they may be assured that God will not accept their unworthy offering any sooner than that of Cain. God requires them to cleanse themselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of the Lord.—Spiritual Gifts 4a:148, 149, 1864 {CD 49.4}


No. 6: The Spirit Cannot Come Because of Appetite!

No man can become a successful workman in spiritual things until he observes strict temperance in his dietetic habits. God cannot let His Holy Spirit rest upon those who, while they know how they should eat for health, persist in a course that will enfeeble mind and body.—Undated Manuscript 88 {CD 55.3}

The Spirit of God cannot come to our help, and assist us in perfecting Christian characters, while we are indulging our appetites to the injury of health, and while the pride of life controls... It is impossible for those who indulge the appetite to attain to Christian perfection.—Testimonies for the Church 2:400, 1870, The Health Reformer, September, 1871 {CD 57}


No. 5: Tea and Coffee Make You Lust!


Excessive eating of the best of food will produce a morbid condition of the moral feelings.... Abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul,” is the language of the apostle Peter. Many regard this warning as applicable only to the licentious; but it has a broader meaning. It guards against every injurious gratification of appetite or passion. It is a most forcible warning against the use of such stimulants and narcotics as tea, coffee, tobacco, alcohol, and morphine. These indulgences may well be classed among the lusts that exert a pernicious influence upon moral character. The earlier these hurtful habits are formed, the more firmly will they hold their victim in slavery to lust, and the more certainly will they lower the standard of spirituality.—The Review and Herald, January 25, 1881 {CD 62.5}


No. 4: Eden Lost Because of Appetite!

As our first parents lost Eden through the indulgence of appetite, our only hope of regaining Eden is through the firm denial of appetite and passion. {CD 59.1}



No. 3: Health Reform Brings Sanctification!

He who cherishes the light which God has given him upon health reform has an important aid in the work of becoming sanctified through the truth, and fitted for immortality.—[Christian Temperance and Bible Hygiene, 10] Counsels on Health, 22, 1890 {CD 59.4}


No. 2: Control Appetite, Control Sin!

The controlling power of appetite will prove the ruin of thousands, when, if they had conquered on this point, they would have had moral power to gain the victory over every other temptation of Satan. But those who are slaves to appetite will fail in perfecting Christian character. Testimonies for the Church 3:491, 492, 1875 {CD 59.3}

No. 1: God Ignores You Because of Appetite!

Those who bring disease upon themselves, by self-gratification, have not healthy bodies and minds. They cannot weigh the evidences of truth, and comprehend the requirements of God. Our Saviour will not reach His arm low enough to raise such from their degraded state, while they persist in pursuing a course to sink themselves still lower. {CD 49.3}

Wednesday, July 24, 2013

POPE HAS SDA BROTHER THAT ANNOUNCED FRANCIS WAS COMING AFTER ADVENTISTS?


“A GLOBAL LAW IS COMING TO MAKE SUNDAY THE DAY OF REST and I’m going to order that it’s approved!” the current Pope said this to his Adventist older brother, according to Argentinian Pastor Hugo Gambetta. El Evangelio Esterno, who produced the video, claims to be an independent Adventist ministry led by Gambetta which focuses on last-day events. A spokesperson for the ministry recently confirmed that the Revelation Seminar-type sermon was held at a Seventh-day Adventist Church in Perth Amboy, New Jersey [Sabbath, June 8, 2013].

Gambetta continued claiming that the pope’s much older brother “has for 52 years been a SDA," then gives a detailed story about how the young Bergoglio, who would later become Pope Francis, spoke for three days with his SDA brother about Adventism. The elder brother gave the young priest Ellen White's books including the Great Controversy which he read.




To which the young Bergoglio responded that Ellen White was a plague and a witch. The pope then shunned his brother and the family even had the SDA ejected by police at his mother's funeral. The last words his brother heard from Jorge Bergolio were, "You are too insignificant for me to avenge myself on you. It is against your church that I will avenge myself.” Then later the SDA brother learned the pope had vowed, "Very soon--see what God does. A global law is coming to make Sunday the day of rest and I’m going to order that it’s approved!”



The Bergoglio family with Jorge, a priest at the time second to the top left.

The General Conference of SDA's spokesperson said that the their phone lines have been glutted with questions about this video which they called a "hoax" and admitted Gambetta's allegations about Pope Francis are totally false. They distanced themselves from it, putting up this notice at their news site: POPE'S BROTHER NOT ADVENTIST

Yet, El Evangelio Eterno claims the sermon was given in an SDA church to an Adventist audience. Even though Gambetta, an SDA pastor until 2005, had his credentials revoked, his Los Angeles-based independent ministry continues to have a large Spanish audience among Seventh-day Adventists.

Let's uncover the errors of this video:

1. Since Pastor Gambetta claims few know this information, he should clearly reveal his sources. Did he get this knowledge first-hand from the pope's brother? The pastor gives no primary sources of this slander against the pope.

2. Both Pope Francis brothers were deceased at the time of the pope's election and the pastor seems to indicate this SDA brother was alive with present verbs such as, "the brothers do not talk" and "he's been an Adventist for 52 years."

3. Gambetta claimed the SDA brother was much older, yet Jorge was the eldest sibling.

4. If this is true, every SDA church would be inviting the pope's Adventist brother to speak and every SDA publication would be in line for an interview.

While it is good the GC is distancing itself from such ridiculous information, the nut doesn't fall far from the tree. The SDA Church has been bearing false witness against its Catholic neighbors since the beginning. Most SDA leadership today are unaware they are passing on misinformation and historical distortions but they should at least be culpable for not doing thorough research into Christian history. They rely too heavily on the SDA history books.

Look at another false (hopefully a joke) report recently put out by some SDA: 



Pope Praises Adventists at St. Peter's tomb at Vatican, Offers Ellen G. White Beatification By FRANCES D'EMILIO together with Juancito Perla y Perla | Associated Press – April 1, 2013
VATICAN CITY (AP) — Pope Francis is spending today's Vatican holiday praying at the tomb of Peter, the church's first pontiff, during a visit to the excavated necropolis under St. Peter's Basilica. During today's events His Holiness brought out a little red book by his favorite author, the Adventist prophetess, Ellen G. White, who died in 1915. Pope Francis announced that he will beatify the 19th century Adventist writer and establish a joint committee for the promotion of full ecumenical fellowship with the SDA denomination. Rev. Ted Wilson, world leader of the nearly 16 million-member sect is said to consider "Unity" within the broader Christian community his number one priority. Both Wilson and Francis are opposed to ordaining women to the pastoral priesthood, it was noted.

http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/622266/Pope_Praises_SDAs_and_Offers_E.html


After the recent Carter Report video of the bishop supposedly "coming clean" and admitting the church changed the sabbath to Sunday that turned out to be a scam, Adventists need to beware Catholic exposé videos. They tend to be rubbish. If you don't find it coming from the Vatican's official website or the USCCB website. Don't believe it.


Update: The video clip above is part of the full clip found 
here.













Wednesday, June 19, 2013

The strange case of Adventism and sexuality


by David Read June 16, 2013

We [Seventh-day Adventists] are, as a practical matter, pro-abortion...

God has commanded us to be fruitful and multiply (Gen. 1:28; 9:1), and Scripture portrays children as a blessing from God (Gen. 33:5; Deut. 7:14; 28:4, 11; Psalm 127:3-5; 113:9; 128:1-6; Prov. 17:6; John 16:21; 1 Tim. 2:15; 5:14). 

A recurring scriptural motif is the barren woman who, in answer to her prayers and through God’s power, is made fertile and bears a child. This was true of Sara (Gen. 18:9-15; 21:1-6), Rachel (Gen. 30:1-22), Samson’s mother (Judges 13), Hannah (1 Sam. 1:1-20), and Elizabeth (Luke 1:5-25). In Scripture, children are greatly sought after, a cause for rejoicing, and fondly cherished.

Interestingly, the prophets write of God having formed them in the womb, and called them to be his messengers while still in utero. “For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother’s womb.” Psalm 139:12. “Yet you brought me out of the womb . . . from my mother’s womb you have been my God.” Psalm 22:9-10. Of Jeremiah, God says, “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.” Jer. 1:5. Isaiah testifies: “Before I was born the LORD called me; from my mother’s womb he has spoken my name. . . . And now the LORD says—he who formed me in the womb to be his servant to bring Jacob back to him and gather Israel to himself.” Isa. 49:1, 5. Paul states, “But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles . . “ Gal. 1:15. Samson’s mother began preparing him for his future calling while he was yet in the womb, by eating a special diet during her pregnancy. (Judges 13:7, 13-14) These passages clearly imply that personhood begins before birth; a person is a person, capable of being designated for a consecrated purpose, while yet in the womb.

One who accidentally causes a premature birth or a miscarriage is subject to a fine (Ex. 21:22-25), but Scripture does not seem to have contemplated a situation in which someone would intentionally kill a baby in the womb. Yet there can be little doubt that abortion is contrary to a biblical and Christian world view. Scripture condemns the ritual killing of children as a “detestable practice.” (Lev. 18:21; 2 Chron. 28:3, 33:6; Ezek. 16:20-21; Jer. 7:31; 19:3-6; 32:35). In most pagan cultures, including ancient Greece and Rome, it was perfectly acceptable to abandon unwanted babies to die of exposure. But just as a Christian Rome eventually outlawed gladiatorial combat, she eventually, in 374 AD, also outlawed the pagan practice of exposing unwanted babies (the ancient practice most comparable to the modern late-term abortion). The Christian consensus about babies is that they are not to be killed, in the womb or out of it.

The Seventh-day Adventist Church has an ambivalent official statement about abortion, which speaks of an unborn child as “a magnificent gift of God,” while also seeking to preserve “the personal liberty of women” to toss that magnificent gift in the trash. But there is nothing ambivalent about the Church’s involvement in the abortion industry. We are hip deep in the abortion business. Elective abortions are performed at many Adventist hospitals, but the real history has been made by individual Adventist doctors. Dr. Edward C. Allred, a graduate of La Sierra University and Loma Linda University, founded “Family Planning Associates” and personally aborted well over a quarter of a million babies. Dr. Allred made the abortion business very lucrative by spending no more than five minutes with each expecting mother. “We eliminated needless patient-physician contact,” he told one reporter. Allred owned 23 abortion clinics, which generated $70 million in annual gross revenues and $5 million in annual profits. When Dr. Allred retired from the business, he sold it to another Seventh-day Adventist, Dr. Irving M. “Bud” Feldkamp III. (Dr. Feldkamp is a dentist, not an OB/GYN, but he recognized a profitable business when he saw one.)

Although Allred’s fortune was built on aborted babies—and he continues to own horse-racing venues which he has stuffed with slot machines—his money was plenty good enough for his alma mater, La Sierra University, which named the “Edward C. Allred Center for Financial Literacy and Entrepreneurship” after him. La Sierra’s board is chaired by Pacific Union President Ricardo Graham; other union officials and three conference presidents also sit on the board. If these men approve of taking blood money from a mass abortionist and naming a “center” after him, it cannot reasonably be argued that the SDA Church is ambivalent about abortion. We are pro-abortion. We seem to consider abortion as wholesome as motherhood and apple pie.

The church’s pro-abortion stance has consequences. It is often argued that high standards are an impediment to church growth, but all of the research and empirical evidence suggest that people are attracted to churches that have high standards and make demands on their members. Our failure to take a Christian position turns people off, including many Adventists. Teresa Fry Beem was a Seventh-day Adventist anti-abortion activist, one of four children of a prominent family in Keene, Texas, where I grew up and was educated. Teresa became so frustrated with the church’s stance on abortion that she converted to Roman Catholicism. She’s written a book entitled, “It’s Okay Not to be an Adventist,” and has founded a “former Adventist discussion group” on Facebook. It’s hard to know how to respond to the Teresa Beems; abortion is a needless and indefensible stain on the Adventist Church.

....

The Sexual Revolution brought about radical changes to the sexual constitution of the developed world, discarding a traditional Christian view of sexuality and replacing it with a pagan view of sexuality that is based upon the idea that anything consenting adults want to do with each other is normative and acceptable. Because of this cultural earthquake, Christians in the developed world can no longer coast along with the dominant culture. And yet that is exactly what Seventh-day Adventists have done in the areas of sex roles, abortion, and divorce and remarriage. We must not continue to drift along with an increasingly pagan larger culture. As Seventh-day Adventists, we need to open our Bibles and, in humble submission, learn what Scripture teaches about sexuality. It seems late in the day to transform our sexual subculture, but the first step in solving any problem is to admit you have one. We have one.


The strange case of Adventism and sexuality

[This blogpost contains only the parts of the article. The comments to his post are enlightening to read if you are a pro-life Adventists. Just go to the link above.]

Tuesday, May 21, 2013

SWALLOWING A CAMEL

"La Sierra University faculty...who do not believe in and endorse the voted SDA belief in creation be released from service for La Sierra University," says GC President Ted Wilson


http://spectrummagazine.org/blog/2013/05/21/revealing-another-conversation-could-impact-lsu-story


La Sierra, a Seventh-day Adventist university, has teachers who do not believe in a young earth. This upsets the General Conference so much that the teachers who believe in an old earth are to be fired. This is what the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists are upset about when it comes to La Sierra. 

Yet, there has been not a word spoken against this:


La Sierra University's Edward C. Allred Center honors notorious abortionist!

http://advindicate.com/?p=2560&cpage=4

Seventh-day Adventist David Read writes, "Edward C. Allred made a fortune owning a chain of abortion clinics, personally aborting hundreds of thousands of fetuses, and currently owns gambling venues in California and New Mexico. In 2010, La Sierra University founded the “Edward C. Allred Center for Financial Literacy and Entrepreneurship” in his honor."

For those Adventist out there reading this, you should be considering putting on sackcloth and throwing ashes upon your heads. This is a scandal beyond belief. 

The church that stands strong against tobacco and beer and wine. The church that claims it promotes the Ten Commandments. The church that clings to the Sabbath for its very life, but will rejoice and honor a man known for bragging during a 1980  interview with a Los Angeles Times reporter, "to have, personally aborted a quarter of a million fetuses in the preceding 12 years. It may seem difficult to believe that one man could perform so many abortions, but Allred tried to spend no more than five minutes with each pregnant woman."

And said: 

"Population control is too important to be stopped by some right-wing pro-life types." Edward C. Allred, M.D. quoted in Anthony Perry, “Doctor’s Abortion Business is Lucrative,” San Diego Union, October 12, 1980, pages A-3 and A-14.


The Adventist Gosnell. 

Adventists friends and family. Wake up. Protest this as you would a Sunday law. 



Wednesday, March 27, 2013

The Sabbath: More Important than Adventists Even Know


Holy Saturday, the Final Sabbath: An Anti-type of the Death of Christ


Christians have been commemorating the last Sabbath since the beginning. Only, instead of observing the Jewish weekly Sabbath as a command, Holy Saturday is a yearly Christian tradition to remember Christ in the tomb during the passion week, the day before Christians celebrate the resurrection. It is said that St. Peter, prince of the Apostles, gave the first Holy Saturday sermon and we still have copies of that sermon passed down to our time. Some of this ancient sermon is recorded here:


"What is happening? Today there is a great silence over the earth, a great silence, and stillness, a great silence because the King sleeps; the earth was in terror and was still, because God slept in the flesh and raised up those who were sleeping from the ages. God has died in the flesh, and the underworld has trembled.”


The last Sabbath Christ spent in the tomb. His body rested in death. And its importance is vastly more than a day. This Sabbath, the Sabbath of salvation, was prophesied all the way back at creation. 

The meaning of Sabbath slowly unfolded through time as recorded in scripture. Let's return to the Creation story and the first day of rest.

Genesis: The Seventh Day


“Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.” Gen. 2: 1-3


God rested on the seventh day. Our Creator needs no rest, for He is spirit. His rest, in fact, was not for Himself but to show us that one day He would rest again. His first rest pointed to another rest in the future. 

This seventh day of creation week was unlike any of the other days, for the scripture records each day with a evening and a morning. The first six days had an opening and a closing. Each day began with the light dimming (evening) and ended with the light dawning (morning). 

Only with a cycle of both darkness and light was there a complete day. With the evening and the morning, it was finished. But, in the creation account, the seventh day had no external boundaries. It had no beginning and end like the other days. The seventh day rest day was not finished. That was for a very important purpose. To find the purpose of the open-ended seventh day of creation we need to know what a seven day cycle meant.

The Seven Day Cycle

Sevens in scripture point to cycles of completion. The seventh in all cycles signals the end, the finish of whatever was taking place. Whether it was a week, a time period for healing or taking a vow, often the Bible speaks of a seven day cycle. When the ceremonial cycle of seven was finished,
 another cycle began. 

So in creation, God began a cycle of seven days that didn’t quite end. The seventh day did not complete the cycle of both evening and morning. 

The creation week ended... but not quite, for the seventh day rest began but never ended. In a sense we can say the seventh day began with the evening but there was no record of the cycle being completed. As if God was saying, “The morning has not yet come.” The cycle of God’s physical creation ended, the heavens and earth were done... yet, the rest He began was not finished. 

There was something more....

God rested the seventh day, a rest that was not yet completed... 

Then this rest began to unfold in Israel's history.


Introduction of the Sabbath Rest


In Exodus 16, the newly freed people of God were tested in the wilderness to see if they would obey God. The test was the manna. One day a week, at the end of a cycle of seven, manna would cease falling from the heavens. The bread of angels would rest. On this day of Sabbath rest or “ceasing” Israel was not to work nor to even go outside (Ex. 16:29), as if Sabbath was kind of a rest of death. In fact, Israel was commanded not even to light a light! They were to stay inside their tents as if they were in a tomb.

Then more rules were added:
No gathering, no working.
Stay inside.
Slaves rest.

Animals rest.
All Israel was commanded to cease.


Almost as if Israel was playing out a part of death by this Sabbath rest.

This rest was a sign for Israel, it pointed back to the seventh day of creation. That same seventh day that wasn’t quite finished. That day of evening and yet no morning, when God rested. 


Israel was given a test of resting, almost as if the test was joining God in His resting of creation. A rest that seemed like a death. No light. Stay in tent. No work. Total rest, like death.

In fact, if you did not cease from all work and stay inside your tent and complete the command of a seventh-day rest, God commanded your own physical death. (Ex. 35:3)

The end of this cycle of sevens was holy. To profane the sign of God’s rest at creation, meant physical death. As Israel wandered in the wilderness awaiting the promised land, Sabbath was not a day to go out at look at nature. It was not a day to enjoy. It was a solemn rest, just as if it were a preparation for Israel’s death. 


So to recap: Sabbath (rest/ceasing) ends a seven day cycle of completion before a new cycle begins. This rest of God did not end at Creation. Something wasn't complete. And a similar rest, given to Israel, remembered the open-ended rest of creation and also resembled death. Could these Sabbaths be a Old Testament antitype of Christ's death?

The Sabbath Death


All those endless cycle of sevens for the people of God which ended in a ceasing, a night without end, a rest that never seemed to complete itself. These cycles started over again each week, each seven years, and each seven/sevens of years (the Jubilee). There was never an eighth day. 

The eighth day in scripture means a new beginning. The eighth day was also a prophecy of the first day of a new heaven and a new earth. An eighth day would mean the end of the old cycle and a new would begin. 

Okay, think about this: since Israel was given all these cycles of sevens ending with a Sabbath rest, could they not have some ceremonial significance that pointed to Christ? After all, many of the ceremonies, like the Passover, the sin offerings, the Exodus that were indeed Messianic prophecies. 

Could not this cycle of seven, ending in a Sabbath rest (that resembled death) point as a sign to the Savior and the rest He was bringing? 

Many would agree it was. However now add to that sign of Messianic rest with the creation open-ended seventh day.

God’s rest at creation began but was not finished until He would rest in the tomb. The first seventh day rest would culminate in the last seventh-day rest on that Great and Holy Saturday when Christ would enter the tomb. As an ancient writer (perhaps even St. Peter himself) spoke about this Great and Holy Sabbath:



“Today there is a great silence over the earth, a great silence, and stillness, a great silence because the King sleeps...Truly he goes to seek out our first parent like a lost sheep.... He goes to free the prisoner Adam and his fellow-prisoner Eve from their pains, he who is God, and Adam's son. The Lord goes in to them holding his victorious weapon, his cross.  ‘Awake, O sleeper, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give you light. I am your God, who for your sake became your son, who for you and your descendants now speak and command with authority those in prison: 

Come forth, and those in darkness: Have light, and those who sleep: Rise. ‘I command you: Awake, sleeper, I have not made you to be held a prisoner in the underworld. Arise from the dead; I am the life of the dead. Arise, O man, work of my hands, arise, you who were fashioned in my image. Rise, let us go hence; for you in me and I in you, together we are one undivided person.

`I slept on the cross and a sword pierced my side, for you, who slept in paradise and brought forth Eve from your side. My side healed the pain of your side; my sleep will release you from your sleep in Hades; my sword has checked the sword which was turned against you. 
‘But arise, let us go hence.’ “ (From ancient homily, “For Holy Saturday: The Lord’s Descent into Hell,” http://www.vatican.va/spirit/documents/spirit_20010414_omelia-sabato-santo_en.html).


Holy Saturday Proclaimed, “It Is Finished!”


God’s rest at creation began but was not finished until He had conquered both Heaven and Hell, both the seen and the unseen, the physical creation and the spiritual creation. With the Sabbath rest of Holy Saturday, God’s rest was finally complete. It was finished. All those Sabbaths Israel was figuratively in the tomb with Christ, pointed to the ultimate fulfillment of the end of the cycle of sin. The end of the seven of sin, the seventh day was finally over. Now with the dawn of the eighth day, the evening of the seventh day was finished! The morning and the true light had come in Jesus. Our Messiah. Our Christ. Our Savior.

Sabbath was to proclaim (as a sign) what God was going doing for us through His rest--begun at creation. He was going to suffer the depths of the underworld, the tomb, the dark rest of no light, just as the sabbaths commanded for Israel.

Now a new heaven and a new earth has come. The cycle of sin is over and the Sabbath of death has been fulfilled. We continue to remember the Sabbath, that great commandment of God for the Jews, only we do it now through the lens of the New Covenant. We now commemorate Holy Saturday once a year (as a Christian tradition) as it takes us to the completion of the seven-day cycle of creation.


And now we remember that then, as Holy Saturday’s tomb trembled the rest of death is over. The curse is lifted and sin has been conquered. 

We are now living a new cycle and its day of commemoration isn’t the tomb, but the SUN RISE!! THE MORNING HAS COME! With Christ’s resurrection, the cycle of creation was completed and now a new kind of rest was brought in. No longer a physical rest, but a rest in the completion of Christ’s salvation.   


The Sabbath was Israel's sign that the Messiah would fulfill the law and the prophets by His death and entombment and finish the long cycle of unaccomplished rest. They entered the prophecy of the tomb by ceasing their labor each Sabbath. 

Christ was bringing in the New Covenant rest that was to be found in Him. "Come unto me all ye who are weary and heavy laden and I will give you rest." And Christ entered the tomb and the final Sabbath was finished.


Morning has broken and we are living in a new day and a new creation. A day of life. A cycle of morning and the Son that will never end.