Thursday, May 3, 2012

Conversations, Pt. III

You say that you have no other choice than to only go by what your heart tells you, correct?

I don't know anyone else I can trust but the Holy Spirit.
Do scriptures teach that you can only trust the Holy Spirit in you to interpret scripture?
The scriptures don't address the issue of interpreting itself.
So you are saying that the scriptures do not tell us how to interpret scripture?
Not that I know of, so we are left to interpreting it ourselves.
What about the Ethiopian in Acts 8? Do you know what he did when he wasn't sure what passages in the book of Isaiah meant?
Yes, God sent Philip to show him what it meant and baptize him.
Why didn't the Lord just sent Him the Holy Spirit to interpret the text?
Because He wasn't a Christian, yet.
Why do you think the Lord gave teachers to the Body of Christ if He had meant for the Holy Spirit to directly bring you as an individual Christian to the fullness of Truth?
I think we are all teachers.... We all help each other know truth. Those are gifts we all can have.
Why would we need teachers, if the Holy Spirit was sent to the individual to bring him into all truth? 

(no answer)

Does the Bible tell us where a Christian should go to find a correct interpretation of scripture?
Could you read Matthew 18, verses 15-17, please.
If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.
So where is the Christian supposed to go?
That isn't about scriptural interpretation, it specifically says sin; if you see your brother sin.
How would a person know if another person is sinning?
The Bible tells us what sin is.
You say that we know what sin is from the Bible. If we go to the Bible to find out sin is and then we see our brother sinning, we then go to our brother and warn them to stop sinning. What if your Christian brother who is sinning doesn't accept your interpretation of scripture and says the Holy Spirit tells him that scripture means something different than you think and what he is doing isn't a sin according to his interpretation? What--according to this scriptural passage-- are you supposed to do then? 
Take two or three witness.
So you are to back up your interpretation of sin in the Bible with other people, right? 

      Yes, I guess so.

Why doesn't the text then say that you should take your Bible to the person and show him in the Bible that he is sinning?

I think you probably should.
So now you and a couple of other Christians show someone you think is sinning a passage from scripture that in your mind proves he is sinning. Okay. And if he still refuses, who does the text consider the final authority?
The church.
Is the Bible or the Old Testament scriptures or the gospels or letters of Paul consulted anywhere explicitly written about in this scenario?
If the Bible is the final authority for the Christian, why would Christ in this passage say the final authority is the church.
The church would, as a church go to the Bible, I guess.
So in the final analysis, you are saying it is the corporate church, an organization who gets to interpret what sin is from the Bible. 
I am not sure, I am still thinking about that. Because what about our conscience? We can't go against our conscience no matter what the church says.
If the Bible is the final authority, why do you think Jesus didn't mention scripture in this passage? 
This must have been because Christ knew the New Testament wasn't written yet. 
Can you give me one place in all of scripture that states that we are given the authority to interpret scripture?
Can you give me one place in all of scripture that states that we are not given the authority to interpret scripture?
May I read for you II Peter 1:20-21? "But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God."
That is about prophecy, not scripture.
But Peter does tell us that we are not to self-interpet prophecy, correct?
Prophecy is not a matter of one's own interpretation. But if person has the Holy Spirit then the Holy Spirit can interpret it. 
You are free to interpret scripture when you are led by the Holy Spirit. Am I stating your position correctly?
If in your opinion you are filled with the Holy Spirit, then who is Peter speaking of when he says we are not to self-interpret? 
Those who don't have the Holy Spirit.
Again, everything in your scenario ends up back upon your own judgment of yourself (whether you have the Holy Spirit) and of scripture. Every interpretation of every text ends up making you the infallible interpreter or the fallible interpreter, doesn't it?
No. It is Christ in me that is the infallible interpreter. 
Then you do consider yourself infallible in interpreting scripture?
No. Christ is infallible.
Christ will not allow you to make a wrong interpretation of scripture?
I have faith that is true.
At this moment are all your interpretations of scripture, all your understandings of doctrine perfect and infallible?
That brings us back to my question. Where is your interpretation of scripture wrong, how do you know its wrong, and does it matter that it is wrong? 
I am tired. This is just ridiculous. All we are doing is going in circles! I have my opinion and that it just what I believe. 
Stick with me for just a moment more. I just want to clarify for everyone here. You realize that your understanding of God and His Holy Word is fallible--you could have some important doctrines wrong. But that you do not know where you are wrong, because the Holy Spirit has not yet revealed to you where you are wrong. You, however, are not worried about it because you trust that if you are wrong, the Holy Spirit will point it out to you at a later date. Is that your position? 
Can you show me any text in scripture that tells us that your position is Biblical--one text that says the Holy Spirit directly tells us the correct interpretation of scripture?

The witness remains silent. 

Thank you and I hope you understand that the questions were not to harm you in any way, but to explore how you think? 
Yes, I know you well. You are the Catholic me. I am the Protestant me. We argue like this all the time. Now, get to work and quit messing on your blog....

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