Saturday, December 24, 2016

Christmas Eve, Adventism and My Aunt Caroline

This night (on Christmas day) my eldest son was born. (You can imagine the jokes when I was wheeled into the ER on Christmas Eve about to give birth and I was admitted to the hospital under my first name, Mary.)

Also--Christmas Eve, my Aunt Caroline was born.

What a privilege to be born on the night Christ was born.

So special.

I take a deep sigh of both sadness and joy as I ponder the miracle of becoming Catholic in a Seventh-day Adventist world. (My world was Seventh-day Adventist, anyway.) Yes, this will be connected with Christmas Eve.

On my Facebook, a cousin posted a picture of my late Aunt Caroline to remember her birthday today.

Happy Birthday Aunt Caroline.

I miss her. And I wish I could explain to her family what happened to me a while ago, but because they are SDA, I can't. They wouldn't believe it because SDAs believe in soul sleep and don't believe anyone goes directly to heaven but sleeps both spirit and body until the resurrection at the Second Coming. They would see my experience as something demonic.

That is the sad part. The happy part is... well I better back up a bit.

Things have been pretty rough for a while for me. And that's okay, not complaining. What a joy to endure suffering to prepare my soul to meet Him face to face one day! But a few months ago, God sent me a dream. Sometimes you just know.... you just know something isn't natural. I don't have dreams this vivid.

In the dream, my husband and I were walking through a huge

bright white-marbled department store. It was clean and glistening white--and it was not like a Belk's or JC Penny--this was more like a rich and glamorous 1950's Neiman Marcus or Sax Fifth Ave. (Since my Aunt Caroline sold furs, I evidently associate her with the big department stores of Dallas in the early 1960's.) 

As my husband and I walked past the shoe department and women's jewelry towards the exit, I glanced up at a woman who was standing at a table. It was kind of like a little restaurant in the old department stores that served elegant snacks and sandwiches. This particular restaurant was up on a few steps--not another floor but a different level on the same floor. I particularly noticed how well-dressed everyone was in the restaurant. Women wearing dresses and hose and high heels, with matching bags. Men were wearing hats and long wool, tailored coats.

The lady standing among the other people looked at me. Not accidentally, but with a sweet intensity. She smiled at me and I had to have a double take. She was radiant. Like--other worldly radiant. She was the most gorgeous creature I have ever seen.

It was my Aunt Caroline.

My husband had my hand and was walking so that my only choice was to turn my head and strain to look at her, now behind me. I swallowed. Oh my gosh. My Aunt Caroline was no longer with us. She had died and yet, there she was. Absolutely. No possibility of mistake. In my dream I realized what was going on. My Aunt
These pictures don't come close to as luxurious as the setting in my dream. 
Caroline was there to give me a smile of encouragement. God had sent my dearest aunt to reach out in love if for only a moment.

In the dream, I stopped Arthur, after we exited the department store and were standing in a multilevel parking garage, and told him I had just seen Aunt Caroline. He believe me and turned around to go back in and see if she were still there.

There she was! She was standing at the exit door looking at us. She had followed us! So she really had been smiling at me! She knew who I was. She was just so beautiful I couldn't stop staring. Young, gorgeous, healthy, happy. 


Arthur took off and met her at the door and for some reason I was having a hard time getting to her. Everything was in slow motion as I ran to her. Not in a bad way.... I wasn't upset, I was profoundly joyful at this mystery. She talked to Arthur but I woke up before I could speak to her. But that last look she gave me, before I awoke was one of the most precious things. Her eyes were full of loving encouragement. I knew that she was in heaven enjoying eternity with the Father. No one could look like that if they were not touched with His holiness.

I have often longed to tell Aunt Caroline's family of this dream, but it would not bring them comfort or happiness. It would be seen as a Catholic attempting to impose spiritualism and the occult on them. So I keep silent.

On this silent and holy night I think not just of the birth of Jesus and my son, but I also remember the wonderful gift I was given, to see another person who shares a birthday with God who has already gone to see her Savior. And soon.... He is coming again. 

39 comments:

Anonymous said...


Theresa. Did you watch this testimony from the beginning to the end?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oXfZEP6hL4

Teresa Beem said...

Hello Anonymous,

No, I did not watch the whole thing. I skimmed the video though. Once I saw that it was a video by Larry Wessels, I got a better understanding of what was going on. I have listened to many of Larry's programs and have found him to be less than an authoritative source for Biblical truths. Nothing against him personally. He seems a genuine fellow. But I first ask if the person sharing their truths has God's authority to be giving truth. As loving and sincere as people are, they are not all given the grace and authority to be telling us what God's truth is. The Bible clearly tells us that the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth...not everyone who claims they know it.

You see, there are many testimonies of Protestants becoming Catholic and Catholics becoming Protestants. Many Christians have a musical chairs experience based, not upon truth, but upon the extreme disappointments of people who fail to live the truths they espouse. Which is important for Christians to note. Your actions are way more important than your words as a Christian. Live your testimony--if you only speak the gospel and don't live it--your life with actually testify against Him. You are breaking the commandment of "Do not take God's name in vain."

So those people who want to give their testimony need to also back it up with their living it, for--like this young woman and hundreds of millions like her... hypocritical Christians are stumbling blocks to the Cross, just as her atheist parents gave this woman nothing she could cling to because their lives were nothing she observed as "working" in the world. Kids are practical. They want a religion that works. Christians need to sacrifice and strive with all their ability and through God's grace to become holy and sanctified that others may truly see Christ in them. We don't need more words, we need to see lives of faith.

You see, the Holy Spirit brings us to Christ while we are yet sinners. Our understanding is not yet perfect even when we discovered what Christ has done for us. If we stop where God originally bring us to Him we are robbing ourselves of maturity and growth. If I were to have stopped and been satisfied I would still be SDA.

We need to continue to search for that pearl of great price. We must put the search for the Kingdom of Heaven above everything else. Never give up on it.

While this women's testimony is sweet and I am so happy that she found God, she is describing a wrong premise of the Catholic Church. Catholics believe that you can go directly to God. She never quite understood what Catholics believe for she is repeating what I have heard thousands of times and thousands of times have found it to be a misrepresentation of what the Catechism teaches. (And that is where the authentic beliefs of the Catholic Church are found--not in the bad priests, bad nuns, bad laymen.)

People send me videos and written testimonies, debates, audios, podcasts, etc of people who leave the Catholic faith and I have not yet heard or read one that authentically describes what Catholics believe. They are testifying against their own personal experience inside of Catholicism. The day to day workings of the hospital that is called the Catholic Church. And it is messy. Christ told us it would be.

And yes, I know exactly how "bad" the Catholic Church members are....

Teresa Beem said...

Part II:

When I became Catholic, I entered when there was the hotbed of priestly sex abuse as a newspaper headline daily. I entered RCIA in probably one of the most liberal church in North America. Our first evening in RCIA, the priest dropped the "f" bomb on the fifty or so people there and by the next couple of months the liberal priests and nuns and Catholics (as sweet as they were) had scared off most Protestants with their continual bombardment of radical progressivism.

You see, most Protestants will not stick around when you tell them that the Catholic Church has no problem with stealing and when the priest directly tells people if they need food, it is okay to steal. That type of provocation to shock fundamentalists may be very funny to some Catholics, but it just continues the cycle of radical misunderstandings between the two groups. And I know of many Catholics who simply do not care if they teach something quite different than what the church teaches. They are living misrepresentative of their faith. Thus... more and more confusion.

OF COURSE the Catholic Church doesn't teach stealing is okay. The little group of about eight of us who survived RCIA were doggedly, stubbornly focused on what the Church taught and not on looking at Catholics.

Often my husband and I say that our experience of entering the Catholic Church was like converting from paganism to Judaism in Jerusalem in AD 68. This may be God's people, but they are eating their children.

We are at a very troublesome time in Christianity today. Chaos reigns within the entirety of Western Civilization that was built upon Christianity and plunged into this dark age as a result of the Reformation, Enlightenment and Modernism.

When atheists, such as this woman, press their hungry faces up to the window of the Living Bread, the people running the bakery seem to be starving and unable to pass on the bread so freely given to us by God.

All I can say after viewing this is: God have mercy on us all. And I am so happy that people find Christ no matter where it is--even in the depths of hell. We just need to show them the light that will lead them to the church Christ Himself started. We need the Christians inside the church! For right now, those who truly find Christ are abandoning the ship to those who are playing "church." And who can blame them?

Anonymous said...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zqkdbQN7SM

Do you agree with this?

Markus

Teresa Beem said...

Do I agree that the Catholic church is full of the wheats and the tares? Of course.
Do I agree that the Catholic Church, like Israel, has leaders who are greedy and perverse? Sure.

Do I believe Christ when He promises that He will NEVER leave nor forsake His church? Yes.
Do I believe Christ when He promised that He would be with His church till the end? Yes.

IF the Catholic Church is Christ's Bride, THEN Christ will be faithful to His Bride no matter how unfaithful she is.

Let's put this analogy out there so you can understand Markus.

If God built a boat that is the boat I want to be on because HE promises HIS boat is making it through the storm to the other side. God's boat may look old and worn. It may be smaller and more unsteady. There may be mutinies and bad pilots, the ship may even have a horrible guidance system and go WAY off course for a while. But what I DO have faith in, is that no matter how smelly, rotted, uncomfortable, no matter the wretched people on board, no matter how bad the food and poor the accommodations compared to the Protestant cruise ships I see traveling nearby--with their GPS state of the art guidance system, their steadiness that causes no sea sickness, their white cloth 5-star food and accommodations--they are NOT the boat that Christ built with His own hands.

Though the storm is long and severe right now in the Catholic Church, the ship Christ began has HIS promise of making it through--no matter. Like the Apostles, I wish Christ would wake up and calm the storm... but I have to trust that He knows what He is doing with His own ship. And all other ships will go down into the waves no matter how many Bibles are aboard. No matter how many altar calls and born-again experiences. Those who trust in Christ will eventually have to board a life boat and leave that ship. It is not making it to the other side.

So--all the facts of evil you bring against her simply do not matter to me. All of this happened before with Israel and Christ did not leave her. He healed her (maybe with great tribulation like the Babylonian captivity, but that was for her own good.) And I believe Christ will punish His Bride in a similar way if she does not come back and be faithful to Him. However, I will NEVER leave the Bride that Christ called His own. The Bride He breathed His very own life into at Pentecost, the Bride that He has stayed with for two thousand years.

Just like St. Augustine said, "The Church may be a whore, but she is my mother." God asks us to be faithful to His Church and rather than leave it because it is unfaithful, you are called to stay and help heal her. Each Christian is to be holy that the Body of Christ, His Bride, may become Holy. And have no worries, for Christ promised that before He returns He will clothe her in spotless raiment. She is going to be spotless and glorious and perfect--as she meets her Bridegroom. We must just hang on during these times and concentrate on our own holiness--be that little light. Don't jump overboard.

This woman has no authority to tell Catholics to leave the church. Why doesn't she do what Christ said and come back into the boat and help with the passengers who need her?

Anonymous said...

Teresa. I will address this but first a question.

Do you understand listening to spanish language?

Markus

Teresa Beem said...

No.

Anonymous said...

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vatican/esp_vatican29.htbnm

If these pictures represent the past and
if someone lived and was sitting in "that (mother)ship" in those times.

Question nr 1; Would you say that,
(A) the people who stayed in the ship in spite of what they saw was going on in it where children of God, or
(B)the people who where tortured because they abandoned the ship where children of God?
Or would you say they where all children of God? The once inside swell as the once outside…?

Question nr 2; and do you think the people who jumped the ship did the wrong thing?



1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.


Teresa Beem said...

Anonymous,
I cannot get that link to work, so I cannot comment on it.

Christians are never supposed to sit back and do nothing when they see sin--especially in the church.

Anonymous said...

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vatican/esp_vatican29.htm

So this one does not work..
Well what about this video then?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9qZfi6wDBY

Anonymous said...

http://listor.se/varlden/historiens-grymmaste-tortyrmetoder/

Teresa Beem said...

Anonymous

I appreciate your concern on this subject. However, I truly don't have time to watch videos. Could you please just sum it up in your own words.
Thank you

Anonymous said...

During the time of the inquisition. Lets say around (Horrible torture of people who disagreed with the RCC.I guess you have seen the equipment they used…)

Would you say that the people who loved Jesus should have stayed in the RCC in spite of what they knew where going on inside her?

And do you think the people who where tortured for their faith did wrong when they wanted to stay separate from the RCC?

Markus

Teresa Beem said...

Markus,

Studies have shown that the tortures and deaths of the Inquisition were mainly Protestant propaganda against the Catholic Church. It was nothing at all that legends claim.

Okay, I will answer your question with a question.

The Protestants tortured and killed MORE Catholics than the other way around. That is fact. The Protestants have simply covered it up by saying their killing of Catholics was due to "war" and/or the deaths were political. For instance, Catholic Queen Mary killed 300 Protestants during all her years of being queen. Her successor Protestant Elizabeth killed almost 3000 Catholics in Ireland in one day. She was so cruel in her disemboweling of Catholics (especially priests) that most accounts of this torture is now censored by readers themselves because they couldn't handle reading it.

Read how Martin Luther inspired the peasant's revolt so that hundreds of thousands of his followers died for religious purposes. Calvinists in Switzerland and Germany and France killed hundreds of Catholics. Protestants simply have buried their history of religious persecution of Catholics.

So, now that you know the Protestants did even more cruel murdering than the RCC are you willing to jump ship? Should those who love Jesus remain Protestant?

You see, we can go back and bring up Israel's killing of the Palestinians and Canaanites.

There is a great history of death for religion on all sides of religion. Is the deaths of these people reason to quit believing?

My answer is no. We follow truth--not bad people. In fact Christ said that His Church would be full of the wheats and tares.

So, we have a history of death and destruction in religion. That is the past. Christ commands us to forgive. The only question you need to ask yourself now is: "If Christ began a church, do we abandon her because she had not been perfect?" As St. Augustine said in the fourth century. The church is a whore, but she is our mother! It is up to us to CHANGE the church by our holy lives. If we see problems in the church, we don't run from her and be like the evil Cain who said "Am I my brother's keeper?" No. We are part of the Body of Christ when we become Christians and that means we don't abandon the church when we see her sin. We stay IN and change her. That is our responsibility as Christians. It sanctifies us by staying in and fighting for the right.

So, the answer is find the church Christ began and stick with her. For He promise He will NEVER forsake her. Period. That's HIs promise no matter how she acts.

Anonymous said...

http://www.inquisition-art.net/eng/pitka1.htm

If a christian would have peaked into a basement and witnessed this scene (The pictures in the link above) , how do you think they would have felt about it?

Anonymous said...

The picture-link does not seem to work ,I just tried. For some reason when it is copied it changes and does not work anymore.

I found a similar scenario here in this video with a collection of drawings. if you pause the video at 1:30min. you can see it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBsLNva6q1Q

If a christian saw this at the time it happened. How would they have reacted?

Teresa Beem said...

A person who would witness torture of the sort you posted would of course be horrified. And should be.

Let me ask you a question. What if this were a Catholic being hung or drawn and quartered, disemboweled by a Protestant? The reaction is the same whether the victim is a Protestant (Anabaptist, Zwinglian or Calvinist) or Catholic or Jew or Muslim or American Indian or an unborn child being aborted. It is horrifying and must be dealt with swiftly and with courage.

It is another thing to say that because of such abuse Christ abandon His church. There is no evidence in scripture that God abandons His people when they go wrong. He chastises them--very severely, but He is not unfaithful to His Bride by taking another.

Anonymous said...

T: A person who would witness torture of the sort you posted would of course be horrified. And should be.

….It is horrifying and must be dealt with swiftly and with courage.

M: Let´s say we where group of 4 believers who in chock witnessed it and heard the screams now how would we have dealt with the situation?

Teresa Beem said...

Somehow I feel this line of questioning is supposed to be taking me somewhere? So what is your point? No matter how many people, they ALL should be horrified and so something to stop it. But NOT start a new church. That does nothing to help the Church Christ started.

Anonymous said...

T: Somehow I feel this line of questioning is supposed to be taking me somewhere?
M: Yes ,that is true.


T:So what is your point?
M:The point is the Truth. Follow along in the hypothetical example ,let´s see what happens next.


T:No matter how many people, they ALL should be horrified and so something to stop it.
M:This is a critical stage in the scenario. We are standing there in chock and confusion... Tell me what should we do about it?



Teresa Beem said...

First, sin will always be in the church. Over and over, Christ warned us that the Kingdom of Heaven has sinners in it. You remember his wheats and tares warning. So we should accept that the church is not full of saints but terrible sinners who will sin terribly. The church is a hospital and it will look bloody, smell bad and be full of people in terrible spiritual crisis. It won't look sparkling clean! And that is what Protestants want... a church of perfect people who will not embarrass them or show hypocrisy.

That is not God's way. We are supposed to be helping these people become saints and together help them turn from their sins and repent. We can't do that if we leave and start a new church. That is like telling God He put you in the wrong family and go out trying to make another one by choosing your own dad and mother. That's not how it works. God choses your family and you stick with them and help each other out. The Church IS God's family.

The premise for the Reformation was about ditching the church Christ started and "improving" it. It wasn't really about praying for and taking care of the Bride of Christ but destroying her and "correcting" God's mistake by leaving the corrupt church and starting one of your own with the people YOU deem worthy of being in YOUR church. Then after a while, sinners sin and then another break comes to "purify" the church. This happens ad infinitum. And this is why Protestant denominations will forever divide.

That was never God's plan. We, as the Body of Christ are RESPONSIBLE for our brothers and sisters in Christ. We are to stay in and fight the war of sin WITH them. We are to find the courage to lovingly address the problem just as Christ tells us in Matt. 18. So the answer to your question is right there in scripture. Go to the person you see sin and eventually you might have to take it to the church. If the church isn't responsive, then pray and become holy yourself. The church will start the path of becoming pure when each member is focused on personal holiness.

Pray and fast for brothers you see sin. Don't abandon them.

Anonymous said...

T:So the answer to your question is right there in scripture. Go to the person you see sin and eventually you might have to take it to the church.
M:If we would have run into the chamber lifted up the woman to ease her pain and cried out to the clergy sitting there -No.what are you doing?
And their respons is -Guards,arrest them. -Who do you think you are? -Are you opposing the RCchurch? -On who's authority are you speaking? -Are you questioning the authority of the church. -Maybe you are heretics likewise? Guards put them away. When they later come to interrogate and asks us to repent of ever questioning the RCC and its leadership to verbally confess it as a sin and submit to them or to be treated like other heretics and undergo purification(torture) Then what?


Teresa Beem said...


M: Jesus told us we would suffer for doing what was right. St. Peter told us it is better and we will get a great reward if we suffer for doing the right thing as opposed to suffering for something we did wrong.

So, under the worst case scenario, you do what is right and leave the outcome to the Lord.

Anonymous said...

Teresa says:M: Jesus told us we would suffer for doing what was right. St. Peter told us it is better and we will get a great reward if we suffer for doing the right thing as opposed to suffering for something we did wrong.

So, under the worst case scenario, you do what is right and leave the outcome to the Lord.

Markus says: Amen

Anonymous said...

Now we are to do what is right nomatter what.
In the example here now then let´s say these 4 people where farmers who just happened to be there in the basement because the brought some seed there.

They did not give in to the interrogators but insisted that what the RCchuch-clergy had don't wrong in torturing that woman.
As result they where labeled heretics and had to undergo torture themselves.

Their family-members came to the city to look for them. They found them in the prison and where hearing their screams from the small windows.
They are in distress.They are crying and do not know what to do. The go home. they gather all family-members belonging to the 4 in jail.
4 spouses and 19 children and 4 elderly. there they are around the small table with the candlelight 8 grownups 19 children. Next morning is obligatory RCC-mass in the city. If someone does not attend service they get punishment. What are they to do?
Should they go and congregate as one body whit the same people who have their brothers and sisters in chains?
























Teresa Beem said...

Markus wrote:
Next morning is obligatory RCC-mass in the city. If someone does not attend service they get punishment. What are they to do?
Should they go and congregate as one body whit the same people who have their brothers and sisters in chains?

Teresa responds.
First off, they would never get in trouble if they didn't attend mass. Is there a case somewhere in the world where some priest was able to punish a person for not attending mass--probably, but that is absolutely NOT Catholic teachings. The church does not say that someone should be punished for not attending mass.

Okay, here are your options:
1)Tell the police.
YES. Go to mass and expose this terrible situation afterwards to other people so they can complain to the bishop and then get the bishop on the phone or if necessary have a sit-in at his house until he hears your complaint and if he doesn't respond you go to the pope. You have a WAY of dealing with this. You don't have to just sit by and accept it.

2) YES--Go to mass and pray for them. Tell God what happened and pray for everyone.

3) Yes, yes, yes go to mass. Why on earth would you want to not go to God with this? Why deal with it on your own? Mass if full of evil people. Mass is the very trenches of the warfare where evil and good are fighting with their very lives. At mass you will find the church Militant, the Church Suffering and the Church Triumphant! You will find the strength, the grace, the courage and the wisdom to know what to do in this situation.

Avoiding mass is the worst possible thing you can do!

Anonymous said...

Markus wrote:
Next morning is obligatory RCC-mass in the city. If someone does not attend service they get punishment. What are they to do?
Should they go and congregate as one body whit the same people who have their brothers and sisters in chains?

Teresa responds.
T:First off, they would never get in trouble if they didn't attend mass.



T:Is there a case somewhere in the world where some priest was able to punish a person for not attending mass--probably, but that is absolutely NOT Catholic teachings.

M:In 1655 Charles Emmanuel II, Duke of Savoy renewed the persecution. He gave them twenty days to sell their lands and leave the town or to attend Catholic mass.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Late_Massacre_in_Piedmont



T: The church does not say that someone should be punished for not attending mass.

M: Here is a bull that says they can do basically whatever they see fit in order to stop heresy.

Innocent VIII: BULL Summis desiderantes, Dec. 5th, 1484
We therefore, desiring, as is our duty, to remove all impediments by which in any way the said inquisitors are hindered in the exercise of their office, and to prevent the taint of heretical pravity and of other like evils from spreading their infection to the ruin of others who are innocent, the zeal of religion especially impelling us, in order that the provinces, cities, dioceses, territories, and places aforesaid in the said parts of upper Germany may not be deprived of the office of inquisition which is their due, do hereby decree, by virtue of our apostolic authority, that it shall be permitted to the said inquisitors in these regions to exercise their office of inquisition and to proceed to the correction, imprisonment, and punishment of the aforesaid persons for their said offences and crimes, in all respects and altogether precisely as if the provinces, cities, territories, places, persons, and offences aforesaid were expressly named in the said letter.

https://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/source/witches1.html


M: Anyway in the protest an churches(witch kept a lot of things from the RCC,for example the state-church-union) they had to be put into the stocks if the did not attend.




Teresa says:
Okay, here are your options:
1)Tell the police.
YES. Go to mass and expose this terrible situation afterwards to other people so they can complain to the bishop and then get the bishop on the phone or if necessary have a sit-in at his house until he hears your complaint and if he doesn't respond you go to the pope. You have a WAY of dealing with this. You don't have to just sit by and accept it.

2) YES--Go to mass and pray for them. Tell God what happened and pray for everyone.

3) Yes, yes, yes go to mass. Why on earth would you want to not go to God with this? Why deal with it on your own? Mass if full of evil people. Mass is the very trenches of the warfare where evil and good are fighting with their very lives. At mass you will find the church Militant, the Church Suffering and the Church Triumphant! You will find the strength, the grace, the courage and the wisdom to know what to do in this situation.

Avoiding mass is the worst possible thing you can do!

Markus says: It sounds to me that all of your 3 options says -go to mass. Is there not also the option not to go?

Anonymous said...

I sum your thoughts up and comment on them;
T:1) Tell the police.
M: this is somewhere in the years 1200-1600 so that wound be the guards and they are basically married to the church.


T: 2) Go to mass and expose this terrible situation
M: That is what the protestants did to some extent and they got labeled as heretics.


T: 3) afterwards to other people so they can complain to the bishop
M: Yes ,I agree ,evil should be exposed.

Ef 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.


T: 4) and then get the bishop on the phone or if necessary have a sit-in at his house until he hears your complaint
M: I do not think there would have been any opportunity to see him if we would have addressed the matter already in mass and been arrested.

T: 5) go to the pope
M: If we are already arrested.

T: 6) You have a WAY of dealing with this.
M: We are now in the cell in prison because we addressed it in RCC-mass.

T: 7) You don't have to just sit by and accept it.
M: Peter and Paul prayed and sung in prison.

T: 8) Go to mass and pray for them.
M: In prison. Bible tells us to rejoice allways. sometimes hard to understand how it is possible. Think about the people who where tortured in those ways. Human beings can really be evil. But God will judge. People must repent when there is still chance.


T: 9) Tell God what happened and pray for everyone.


T: 10) Why on earth would you want to not go to God with this? Why deal with it on your own?


T: 11) Mass if full of evil people.
M: Does not the bible tell us not to congregate with those who call themselves christians and are evil?

1Cor 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.


T: 12) At mass you will find the church Militant
M: Christians should not use physical violence. Like a steel-sword.

Joh 18:10 Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus. 11Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?

Matt 5:39 But I say unto you, That you resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also.

T: 13) the Church Suffering
M: The true church is suffering outside the camp with Jesus.

Heb 13:12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. 13Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach. 14For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.
Matt 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

T: 14) the Church Triumphant!
M: The false chuch (Harlot) will get Judgement and the true church will get to inherit the Kingdome.

The book of revelations talks about it.


T: 15) You will find the strength, the grace, the courage and the wisdom to know what to do in this situation.

James 1.5
If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

-----------------------
so to sum up ,in this thought-experiment if it happened in the year 1200-1600 aprox. if we exposed the torture,the darkness there at mass we would probably find ourselves in a prion-cell next to our relatives.

Now. the people at mass who witnessed what happened. If they want to follow their conscious what are they to do?




Teresa Beem said...

Markus wrote:
In 1655 Charles Emmanuel II, Duke of Savoy renewed the persecution. He gave them twenty days to sell their lands and leave the town or to attend Catholic mass.

My response:
YES!! PLEASE NOTE THAT WAS A government! Persecution for not attending mass is not Catholic teaching. The Duke of Savoy was a lord smack dab in the middle of the most furious of Protestant reformation wars. During the Protestant reformation and afterwards some areas forced attendance--both by the Catholics and Protestants. In certain areas in America this happened also. But this was not the church--this was government. There is no Catholic doctrine that says one must attend mass.

Now to the Inquisition:

Markus you keep bringing up straw men arguments. The inquisition was for CATHOLICS---not for Protestants nor Jews nor Muslims. And the Inquisition wasn't about going to church is was about men who called themselves Catholic and were secretly sabotaging the church. To conflate the two is to not understand history. If anyone was put in front of the CHURCH-sponsored inquisition solely for non-attendance of mass, that would be the exception, I assure you.

Remember there were government sponsored inquisitions and church sponsored inquisitions. They were NOT the same. Today, we still have government sponsored inquisitions--it's called a trial. That's what the inquisitions was. BEFORE that, it was trial by fire... trial by mob.... the pope INSTITUTED the inquisition in the 12th century to prevent mob rule... It KEPT the heretics from being killed. It was about an inquiry INTO the situation to make certain justice was done. The church ONLY had the authority to have a church trial for Catholics. ONLY government inquisitions could put other citizens on trial for heresy (what they believed to be subversion and traitorous behavior--heretics fomented insurrection.)

Teresa Beem said...


Markus:
Christ told us that we would be persecuted. Don't worry about it. If God's church persecutes you then you are to rejoice and be glad for great is your reward in heaven. THE TRUE church, Jesus told us, HIS BELOVED ISRAEL persecuted God's prophets. So we as Christians should expect the same. You see this persecution that came from Catholicism doesn't in ANY WAY OR FASHION take away the fact that it is the Bride of Christ. Instead of leaving her, we are called to stay INSIDE and help cleanse her by living a holy life. Nowhere in scripture did God tell His people to start another Israel. We are to stay inside the family of God and nor run away and pretend we are not responsible for it. That is how CAIN acted. "Am I my brother's keeper?" YES! We are and abandoning Christ's church when she was MOST in need of godly men from the bottom rising and rescuing the Bride the was being ravished by satan with bad popes and bishops. That is the exact same thing as allowing your own mother to be raped and running away and abandoning her. YOU WERE CALLED TO STAY AND FIGHT! Shame, shame on Protestants for abandoning the Bride of Christ. And then celebrating it. For shame.

HERE is the crux of the problem:

You responded by quoting me:
T: 11) Mass if full of evil people.
M: Does not the bible tell us not to congregate with those who call themselves christians and are evil?

That is correct. PLEASE, I BEG of you to read your Bible. NOWHERE, NOWHERE in scripture does it say to abandon the church to the heretics. If you see a heretic they are to be thrown OUT of the Church.... God, Christ, Apostle... not one prophet who wrote God-breathed words told us that when we see these idolaters and evil men that WE are to leave the church. NO! We are to toss them OUT! And instead of doing the hard things, the courageous thing... Reformers ran away and abandon the rest of God's church. THAT was absolutely positively against all the God wrote to us. YOU and your Reformers abandon the women and children and ran from the burning building instead of doing what God asked of you and stay and throw the evil out. God will hold you accountable...

And LOOK at what has happened because of the cowardice of the Reformers? Today we have men who divorce their wives and the abandonment continues to the most tragic degree. While some of the Catholic Church leaders have acted horribly during the centuries, that in no way excuses the Reformers and the Protestants today of their continued abandonment. The world is groaning over the weight of sin... children are bathing in filth--man has prostrated himself to and is living--NOT for God anymore--but for money. Money had become the god. America and the West are idol worshipers unlike anytime in the history of the world and ALL you PROTESTANTS can do is throw stones as Christ's BRIDE. CEASE AND DESIST.

IF YOU will not help her... if all you want to do is bring up ancient crimes that have been forgiven... if all you want to so is throw stones as Christ's Church then you are going to be just as bad as any pope that helped corrupt the bride. STOP criticizing and do something positive.

Anonymous said...

so to sum up ,in this thought-experiment if it happened in the year 1200-1600 aprox. if we exposed the torture,the darkness there at mass we would probably find ourselves in a prion-cell next to our relatives.

Now. the people at mass who witnessed what happened. If they want to follow their conscious what are they to do?

The people know about what is happening inside the church. Physical torture. They know people pleaded for the people and for truth at the the gathering called "mass"(witch is not biblical happening nor name) and they got arrested aswell. Now what are the people in the pews who wants to follow the truth(if there are/where any sitting there) suppose to do?
Tell me Teresa.

Teresa Beem said...

Markus,
I have answered your question thoroughly. Obey Christ and His Church until death and you will receive a great reward in heaven. We need not be afraid of death.

Anonymous said...

T: I have answered your question thoroughly. Obey Christ and His Church until death and you will receive a great reward in heaven. We need not be afraid of death.

M: So the people in the church who want to stay true towards Jesus are to stand up and say -You arrested and torture people who stands up for truth and now we do the same. Here we stand to let you know that what you are doing is against God.

now these people are also arrested and there is a warning announced to the people that if there are any other heretics here they will be dealt with and this they proclaim (theRCC) in the name of God.

Some people are chocked and start in their mind wonder if this could possibly be of God.They go home and are struggling with how they are to coupe with this. they hear there are gouts living in the mountains who have fled there in order to escape persecution from the so called church(RCC). The people in the mountains are of the opinion that Rcc are not followers of Christ but they think people who follow jesus should follow his teachings. So they are hiding because their conscious does not allow them to sit silent in RCC and everyone who has spoken out has been arrested. So their conciense forse them to separate themselves from the RCC.

Now the people who are sitting at home wonder what is the right thing to do should I go and tell the truth in mass next sunday and risk being arrested or should we escape the RCC and go to the mountains and join the christians there..?

i seems like the people in the mountains are true christians who care about people and care about the truth. And on the other hand the people in the RCC are working for the devil and are surprising the truth.

I guess you can understand their dilemma. What do you think they should do? take their children with them to the next mass and face persecution or join the christians in the mountains?

Teresa Beem said...

I honestly do not know how I could be clearer, Markus. Yes. Stand and face persecution.

Teresa Beem said...

OR flee to the mountains.

But DO NOT ABANDON GOD'S CHURCH.

Anonymous said...

So if we flee to the mountains and join the others there,then the truth has separated us from evildoers(not true christians) and formed an essambly of people who loves the truth. Like in China where persecution brings them together underground.

Philippians 2
2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.

1 Peter 3
8 Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:


2 Corinthians 6
14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.
18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.


1 Corinthians 5:11
But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

Anonymous said...

Teresa.
Listen to what this man is saying for 13 minutes if you have the time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0D9jFeEHvM


Markus

Teresa Beem said...

Please give me the Cliff Notes, Markus. I skimmed for about two minutes through the video and it doesn't seem to bring up any new information than I have heard hundreds of times. Who is this young man? Do you know him?

Anonymous said...

Cliffnotes;

#the disciplels where guiden by the spirit of God.
#corruption happened
#perverted doctrine came
#people started to learn from the mind instead of from the spirit.
#church history is not infallable
# this we have from acts20
Be shepherds of the church of God,[a] which he bought with his own blood.[b] 29 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30 Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. 31 So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears.
#christians started to teach corrupted doctrines
#apostolic succession is a lie
#we need to be led by The spirit of God.

I have seen a few videos of this man and he seemed to explain this matter pretty well so I thought I will send it to you.
Do not let yourself become locked in by this one assumption of apostolic succession. Espesially since Paul warner about the deception that where to creep in.

Markus