Most people who knew me growing up would have called me dramatic. Which could be a good description with one explanation. I felt more than I ever showed. The drama was not empty or exaggerated. There was nothing put on with my happiness and my pain. I didn't display more than I felt, I was careful to only allow a certain amount of emotion burst from the volcano that I was actually feeling inside me.
I wasn't melancholy or depressed or angry. In fact, I distinctly remembering in 6th grade the first time I ever felt anger and it shocked me. Mostly my
Most of my life, people felt free to dismiss me because they labelled me a "drama queen." They had no idea. They still don't. I have learned, as an adult, to discipline that overwhelming emotion percolating inside and exhibit only a small fraction of what I feel. Which is good. I am not complaining.
The only reason I draw attention to this is that I realized as a child that some days I would feel so in love with Jesus and other days I would feel empty. So by the time I was in my early teens I knew not to trust my feelings about God. I didn't want a roller coaster religion or theology. I didn't mind feelings of course, I couldn't help experiencing them anyway. I just needed God to be outside of feeling, bigger than feeling.
So by the time I was in high school I had made a commitment to myself to seek God outside of emotions. I wanted an intellectual relationship with Him. I needed that, because that had a fixed point in the turbulent seas within me.
Try explaining to a Southern American Protestant that you want a rational, intellectual relationship with Christ. Try, as a teenager telling your pastors and teachers that you want more than a simple emotions-oriented relationship with God and actually telling your pastors and teachers this? I can assure you, that didn't go over well. I don't think they even understood the concept. And that was probably because I didn't know how to explain it. But they thought I was going backwards and replacing my heart of flesh (Jesus) and putting in a heart of stone.
However, I was not limiting, but expanding my walk with Christ. I already had the heart. Christians simply did not understand. They absolutely told me that a simple relationship was all that was needed. And by "simple" I felt they meant--"don't think, stay in the world of intuitive, otherworldliness." They equated emotions with the spiritual world.
Because of this need for a stable relationship with God that dealt with the intellect, facts, rationality, I began to think about what I believed. When I reached out for evidence, facts, reality, rationality and especially philosophy, you'd have thought I had become an atheist, or was treading on evil ground.
Believe--don't think!
I do understand. Because the minute I began thinking, I realized that what I was taught and reality simply didn't add up.
When newly married, I became disillusioned with the church I grew up in, the Seventh-day Adventist Church, because I had to walk around with a cognitive dissonance between reality and what I was taught. So, my husband and I eventually left the church.
And what I have learned is that there is a great danger in Christianity with this over-emphasis on feelings. There are Christians out there who do not believe one can make an intellectual commitment to God. That unless one has this dramatic "experience" with God you are not legitimately saved. That is a travesty.
Using the power of one's will to commit to God is every bit as legitimate a decision to follow Christ as an emotional one. God accepts both.
So with that personal introduction, I recommend the below video to all of you out there who resist a "drama queen" relationship with God. You too, may identify with this man's need to reach out and understand God with philosophy and rationality.
Maybe you want more than a simple faith. Perhaps that is not enough for you. That's okay. There are a lot of people out there who need an intellectual faith. You will enjoy this video. It doesn't give you the answers but shares with you the philosophy of having a theological philosophy!
Here is the book that helped Dr. Sullivan to come into faith:
HANDBOOK OF CHRISTIAN APOLOGETICS
31 comments:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWZRp8za-p0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOxeVC4bF0c
And compare these two.
John 4:24 God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”
Acts 14:11And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men. 12And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker. 13Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people. 14Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out, 15And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:
Hi Teresa and Arthur.
have you seen this video when the pope invited different religions...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tF1Epj9nL8
You might find this one of interesst also..
The 2030 agenda:ANTI-CHRIST SYSTEM in motion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1miBqY82FYk
Markus
Hi Markus,
Before I became Catholic, I studied the anti-catholic point of view for eight years. (I have a small library of anti-Catholic books.) So I have seen or heard these same arguments over and over and am familiar with them.
Also--this is not a criticism just a note of practicality--I tend not to publish comments that have links attached, but since you keep sending them to me I just wanted to let you know that if you want your comment to be published don't send a link--because that means I have to watch it all to make sure it is appropriate and I don't have that kind of time.
There are two types of anti-catholics and before I engage in a discussion with you, I would like to ask you a question:
1) Are you interested in understanding Catholicism and engaging in a true, respectful and enlightening discussion where you are willing to admit if you are wrong?
2) Are you interesting in "exposing" Catholicism to me so I will leave the church? And you have no intension of being open-minded and searching for what Catholics believe because as ALL anti-catholics in this category say, "they ALREADY know all about Catholicism and don't want to hear anything positive about it.
If you are in the second category, I thank you, but I have gone over these same problems with what you think is wrong with the Catholic church dozens of times, and I have never been convinced by them. They are either irrelevant or twisted or outright lies. I know this from research, but if you are not interested in being shown otherwise, then we are at an impasse. I have no animosity towards you at all! In fact, I love you and understand. We live in a very chaotic time where lies are spread by the Father of Lies to the point where it is almost impossible to know the truth so that it may set you free.
However, God gives us certain amount of time and I hate to waste it arguing with someone who is not open to being wrong. Blessings!
To Anonymous, who posted the first comment.
There are many times I look at my posts and the comments and I think...hummm, I understand how they mistook what I wrote and I blame myself that I was not clear and I try to write more clearly next time. But your comment makes me think you didn't read my post. You posted this verse in context of my post, John 4:24 "God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”
The entire entry was about how we need both Spirit and Truth. So we all agree on those points. May I assume your text was supporting my post rather than correcting it?
And the second passage from Acts 14 and the two youtube videos don't seem to be a comment about the post itself. I do not understand your point in posting them. Blessings!!
Hi Teresa.
It was me Markus who sent the two links aswell.
The Point with them was to show you the contrast between the roman catholic Church-system and true worshippers in the other one. The pope lifted on a pedistal vs. believers putting Jesus Christ in the centre. If we just put on an outward show and if we are not worshipping in spirit and in truth God knows we are faking and he does not resieve it...
I can understand you are busy and do not want to watch unnessesary things.
But this fact that you are defending the rcc is a sign somthing is wrong. I can not understand you ended up there... You where a seeker of truth.. You did not want to be desieved...
How could you go there when the scripture warns us about those things they do...they are not operating in accordance to thruth..
I wish for you(the bouth of you) to Wake up in Jesus Christ name!
Another video here of the Swiss-guards(2min) if you look at this with the eyes of the "Little girl who loves Jesus".. Does it look like followers of Christ?Like in the bible?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZ9Rgamojy0
Markus,
Are you really interested in learning about the Catholic faith? Or are you going to continue to send me links that I know to be untrue?
Earlier I wrote that I spent eight years studying the faith. I have many books in my library that argue against the Catholic Church. I studied them all very closely and compared them with scripture. When you see scripture through a Catholic understanding it make the most sense, it closes all the gaps that were totally illogical to me. I left the Seventh-day Adventist church because I wanted a faith that WAS BIBLICAL... I would never ever have given that up. If I had decided to compromise my faith, why wouldn't I just return to the SDA church? I suffered too much, gave up too much to pursue truth. With the Catholic faith I found the church of the New Testament. I have heard all the theological and cultural and history.... I spent a lifetime with people who rejected Catholicism so I studied and over-studied it to make certain I wasn't being deceived. I know deep down--like so thoroughly know--that I would be martyred for my faith.
Does that mean I am not wrong? Well, when I was an SDA I was so certain that the sabbath was the end-times test of faith that I had spent a lifetime of preparing for martyrdom for the sabbath. So I can absolutely be wrong. However, I truly believe if I left Catholicism the only other possibility would be the Orthodox Church. If not them.... I would become Jewish. But what I can say is I would NEVER EVER join a group that Christ didn't start. I would NEVER join a church that sprung from the Reformation. To me, their is nothing at all Biblical about Reformation-based Christian sects.
Sorry about the typo's I wrote that while I was eating and was distracted!
PART 1;
Ok. let me clarify these point one by one so there will not be any misunderstandings..
T: Are you really interested in learning about the Catholic faith?
M: The RCC? Not really. The reason is the same as why I am not interested to study the Koran in more depth. I now that the koran denies the death of Christ on the cross. Comparing that with the bible shows the difference.Why go further…
Same in mormonism. I have seen pictures of their temples. It looks like freemasonry.Comparing that with biblical christianity you see the difference. Why go further..
Looking at RCC-rituals,-concepts (pope gathering religious-leaders who deny Christ in the name of freedome. pope being carried like a king. A picture of a dragon-emblem inside the vatican. People lying on the floor praying towards the pope on a trone. Jesuites. Jesuites swearing an oath. Swissguardsto protect the pope. Not allowing people to take vine at communion. People dressing themselves in special clothes.And comparing that to how life in Christ is displayed in the bible.Why go further...
-----------------------
T: Or are you going to continue to send me links that I know to be untrue?
M: Witch one of the links where untrue? Help me to find out if some of them where.
T: Earlier I wrote that I spent eight years studying the faith.
M: That Is good I think. God has promised us to find if we search.
--------------------
T: I have many books in my library that argue against the Catholic Church.
I studied them all very closely and compared them with scripture.
M: Ok. Do you not see any of the point they make against her to be valid then?
--------------------------
T:When you see scripture through a Catholic understanding it make the most sense
M: How can that be?? When you see that Jesus is hated by the world and all world leaders comes to visit the pope.
You have read the prophecy of Daniel. You know the 4:th and the last kingdome before christ( the stone from heaven) is rome.
Peter in Bible look nothing like vatican leaders.
And isn´t catholic understanding that you should pray to Maria?? How could that make the most sense to read that into the Bible?
Statues?
Signs/symbols with pagan origin?
-----------------
T:, it closes all the gaps that were totally illogical to me.
M: Just because they hawe an answer for every paragraf does not mean they are right. Same with other organizations.
For example JW. has an answer for all questions.Almost. Right?
I am curious of what gaps you mean exactly.. I guess you mean the red tread throughout the bible..?
-------------------
T: I left the Seventh-day Adventist church because I wanted a faith that WAS BIBLICAL…
M: Well,good then.If SDA is in error.. Whatever it takes for us to be in the truth.Right?
----------------
PART 2;
T:I would never ever have given that up. If I had decided to compromise my faith, why wouldn't I just return to the SDA church?
M: Yes. I do believe it was difficult for you. And that you paid a prize. I also think you honestly wanted the truth..Atleast that was the impression I got from you in the interview.
----------------------
T: I suffered too much, gave up too much to pursue truth.
M. So why give up on the truth now? No, you can´t.
-----------------------
T: With the Catholic faith I found the church of the New Testament.
M: Wait a minute… Did you compare the two videos I sent you of the pope being carried in that black and white video and the other of people in their home worshipping… Witch one look more like the church of the New Testament.
-----------------
T: I have heard all the theological and cultural and history….
M: ..
-------------------
T: I spent a lifetime with people who rejected Catholicism
M: Well, that does not mean you have to reject truth..
-----------------
T: so I studied and over-studied it to make certain I wasn't being deceived.
M: It´s good to make sure. Jesus warns us of deception.
--------------
T: I know deep down--like so thoroughly know--that I would be martyred for my faith.
M:
----------------
T: Does that mean I am not wrong? Well, when I was an SDA I was so certain that the sabbath was the end-times test of faith that I had spent a lifetime of preparing for martyrdom for the sabbath. So I can absolutely be wrong.
M: But, anyway God knows your heart.God is above our circumstances. He has promised to lead us into all truth..
--------------------
T: However, I truly believe if I left Catholicism the only other possibility would be the Orthodox Church.
M: Why? They are similar to the Rcc.
-------------------
T: If not them.... I would become Jewish.
M: Believers are grafted into the olivetree by faith in Jesus Christ.
-------------------
T: But what I can say is I would NEVER EVER join a group that Christ didn't start.
M : There is only one group that will be saved. The body of Christ. The believers. The followers of the way.. Those who are his..
-------------------
T:I would NEVER join a church that sprung from the Reformation.
M: There is only one church. And it is not made of stones like granite..Nor marble.. But by living stones.
-----------------------------
T: To me, their is nothing at all Biblical about Reformation-based Christian sects.
M: Jesus tells us to be his disciples. To pick up our cross and follow him.
------------------
Anonymous,
Greetings and blessings in Christ.
While I totally appreciate all the time you took to write me back, I am not understanding what you want from this conversation. You said you already have made up your mind about Catholicism and I will not try and convince you any different. The Holy Spirit convicts, not me. I am thrilled you are a believer and therefore I have no issue with your faith. If you were baptized into the Trinity, as Christ told us to in scripture, then you are my brethren in Christ and I am happy for you. We will spend eternity getting to know one another.
Like I wrote earlier, I have heard many, many times the problems Protestants have with Catholics. I am at peace with my faith, because Christ started the Catholic Church. And what Christ has begun, He will see to its finish. I trust Him.
There is truly no longer any reason for our conversation to continue if you are not interested in my replies, because they will all be in Catholic apologetics which you have stated you are not interested in reading. So blessing to you and God speed.
Anonymous,
Greetings and blessings in Christ.
While I totally appreciate all the time you took to write me back, I am not understanding what you want from this conversation.
M: I do not want you to be decieved.
You said you already have made up your mind about Catholicism and I will not try and convince you any different.
M: ok. Then try to convince yourself.. Ask yourself, is this true..? Is this rigth? Is this the Will of God?
The Holy Spirit convicts, not me. I am thrilled you are a believer and therefore I have no issue with your faith. If you were baptized into the Trinity, as Christ told us to in scripture, then you are my brethren in Christ and I am happy for you. We will spend eternity getting to know one another.
Like I wrote earlier, I have heard many, many times the problems Protestants have with Catholics.
M: well ,what do you think,When you take an honest look. IF there where no protestansts ... Only you yourself examining the RCc and Reading the bible.
I am at peace with my faith, because Christ started the Catholic Church.
M: he was the Way and some followed him. But he warned about a Falling away..
And what Christ has begun, He will see to its finish. I trust Him.
M:I think your faith in him is true. So he has begun à work in you. Let him guide you. may the Will of God happen in Jesus Christ namne.
But the Falling Away Will Also reach its climax we can read in revelations.
There is truly no longer any reason for our conversation to continue if you are not interested in my replies,
M: i am interessted in your replies.
because they will all be in Catholic apologetics which you have stated you are not interested in reading.
M: what chatolic apologetics have convinced you that an egyptian obelisk is ok to have on display in your yard.
So blessing to you and God speed.
May the will of God happen in Jesus Christ name.
Markus
Anonymous,
Greetings and blessings in Christ.
While I totally appreciate all the time you took to write me back, I am not understanding what you want from this conversation.
M: I do not want you to be decieved.
You said you already have made up your mind about Catholicism and I will not try and convince you any different.
M: ok. Then try to convince yourself.. Ask yourself, is this true..? Is this rigth? Is this the Will of God?
The Holy Spirit convicts, not me. I am thrilled you are a believer and therefore I have no issue with your faith. If you were baptized into the Trinity, as Christ told us to in scripture, then you are my brethren in Christ and I am happy for you. We will spend eternity getting to know one another.
Like I wrote earlier, I have heard many, many times the problems Protestants have with Catholics.
M: well ,what do you think,When you take an honest look. IF there where no protestansts ... Only you yourself examining the RCc and Reading the bible.
I am at peace with my faith, because Christ started the Catholic Church.
M: he was the Way and some followed him. But he warned about a Falling away..
And what Christ has begun, He will see to its finish. I trust Him.
M:I think your faith in him is true. So he has begun à work in you. Let him guide you. may the Will of God happen in Jesus Christ namne.
But the Falling Away Will Also reach its climax we can read in revelations.
There is truly no longer any reason for our conversation to continue if you are not interested in my replies,
M: i am interessted in your replies.
because they will all be in Catholic apologetics which you have stated you are not interested in reading.
M: what chatolic apologetics have convinced you that an egyptian obelisk is ok to have on display in your yard.
So blessing to you and God speed.
May the will of God happen in Jesus Christ name.
Markus
Markus,
Greetings in Christ.
It is taking me a few days to get to responding to comments. So, please forgive me.
What have I written on this blog dedicated to Catholicism that makes you think I have not thoroughly looked into the religion? I am very pleased with the Catholic faith. It seems as though you are not good with me choosing Catholicism. While I am sorry about that, I simply do not have the time to try and display my knowledge and sincerity to all the Protestants who question me. I think if you will read my blog, you will find the answers you are seeking. It is all out there publicly. I honestly wish I had the time (and someday I might) to engage in every single Protestant's objections. For I know that beneath your ardent anti-catholicism, you may have a spark of interest in why so many hundreds of millions of people choose to follow Christ in His church.
Just believe me when I say, most of what you think Catholics believe is an illusion. Let me demonstrate. An atheist sees a photo of several Christians sitting at a dinner table bowing their heads and praying. It would SEEM to an unfamiliar witness that these people were worshipping food. When a man kneels down on one knee and asks a woman to marry him, it may SEEM to a person who sees this photo that the man is worshipping the woman. It could ALSO SEEM to someone visiting a pentecostal church that the people bowed before the front ... coming forward for an altar call... that they are worshipping the pastor. And they would be wrong on all accounts. Learn what Catholics teach and pay no attention to those who try and deceive with photos of obelisks and pope worship. Catholics ONLY worship God. Not Mary, not the saints, not objects. We worship God alone.
And Catholics have ALWAYS conquered and redeemed what was GOD'S in the first place. If you see obelisks in a church front yard in Rome... look at what is at the top! It is crowned with a CROSS signifying the conquering of paganism.
Reply to Markus- You said to Teresa:"It was me Markus who sent the two links as well. The Point with them was to show you the contrast between the roman catholic Church-system and true worshippers in the other one. The pope lifted on a pedestal vs. believers putting Jesus Christ in the centre." Now, I'm a cradle Roman Catholic. And what I've always been taught to believe is that God, is our Father Almighty, Creator of the Heavens and the Earth. Of all that is visible and invisible. That Jesus Christ is His only Son, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered, died, and was buried. Who descended into hell. And then rose on the third day from the dead. He ascended into Heaven and now sits at the right hand of the Father, from which he will judge the living and the dead. In other words, by our Creed that we repeat at every Mass (& at the beginning of a rosary), that God (and Christ) IS the CENTER and Foundation of the Church. That means everything that is a part of the human world needs to lead to Christ & to the worship of our loving Father. Catholics don't worship things or other people, but only God our Father, the Son, & Holy Spirit. And since God is the Creator of ALL things (...for “the earth and its fullness are the Lord’s.” - 1 Corth 10:26), as baptized Christians, we are called to a discipleship in ordering all earthly things towards the glory of God. As Paul continues later in 1 Cor 10:31, "So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do everything for the glory of God." The key is "whatever you do...do for the glory of God." In essence, this is our priestly mission on Earth, glorifying God in everything we do on earth. The Catholic Catechism (#898) states: "By reason of their special vocation it belongs to the laity to seek the kingdom of God by engaging in temporal affairs and directing them according to God's will....it pertains to them in a special way so to illuminate and order all temporal things with which they are closely associated that these may always be effected and grow according to Christ and maybe to the glory of the Creator and Redeemer." This means anything temporal (or secular) is to be ordered toward illuminating, growing, and glorifying only God (Father, Son, & Holy Spirit) because God is the Creator, who gives us everything we have. Thus, earthly icons (not idols) are used as symbolic representations (as is the Pope) to help order our thinking towards the glorifying and worshiping of our one true God. They remind us of who we need to give thanks to and also who we need to depend on - that is God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) alone. Markus, I don't understand how you can't see that everything on the earth belongs to our one God & has been given to us to use in any way we want as long as it is directed toward the glorification of Him. The Israelites were cast into the desert for 40 years because they couldn't see that. They chose to see only the earthly, wanting the earthly, and kept turning away from their true God & instead continued, like the Egyptians, to glorify and worship the earthly. I am thankful for everything that God has given us that helps direct us to Him and our resurrection into the New Jerusalem - He created & ordered everything for that purpose - Alleluia, Alleluia, Hosannah in the Highest! Peter said,"Now who is going to harm you if you are enthusiastic for what is good?" (1 Pet 3:13) And thus, I have faith that our Catholic enthusiasm in using God's creation has been developed by the Holy Spirit for almost 2000 years for the good of glorifying our one true God and will protect us (the Church) from harm. For all of this and more, I love being a Catholic, Markus. I have no fear. I bid you peace and goodwill.
T:It is taking me a few days to get to responding to comments. So, please forgive me.
M: no problem.
T:What have I written on this blog dedicated to Catholicism that makes you think I have not thoroughly looked into the religion?
M: I think you have looked into it but I just can not understand that you support it...You seem like a person who loves truth..How can you stay in RCC?
T:I am very pleased with the Catholic faith.
M:What about the truth? I know you care about the truth.
T:It seems as though you are not good with me choosing Catholicism.
M: That is true, I am not good with that.
T:While I am sorry about that, I simply do not have the time to try and display my knowledge and sincerity to all the Protestants who question me.
M: I am trying to wake you up!
T: I think if you will read my blog, you will find the answers you are seeking. It is all out there publicly.
M: I am seeking to get you to agree with me that RCC is not following the teachings of Jesus Christ.¨
Running out of time..I have to continue answering you another day..
Markus
And SMH I will answer you later God willing.
Markus:
If after you read this blog you still wish to discuss why I should leave Catholicism, then--when I am done with my current project--I will try and engage you. But I have discussed these things with many Protestants and have yet to find even on objection against Catholic dogma that is not thoroughly debunked by those who know Catholicism well. God bless you Markus! I am touched by your sincerity.
Continuing answering previous post;
T: I honestly wish I had the time (and someday I might) to engage in every single Protestant's objections.
M: ok
T: For I know that beneath your ardent anti-catholicism, you may have a spark of interest in why so many hundreds of millions of people choose to follow Christ in His church.
M:the Bible says God chose the people who will follow Christ.
Ef 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
//Another thing that comes to mind is that people loved darkness.
John3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
//And the fact that people will follow RCC the scripture testifies of in book of revelation and 1john2:18Children, it is the last hour; and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they did not belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. But their departure made it clear that none of them belonged to us.…
T:Just believe me when I say, most of what you think Catholics believe is an illusion.
M:But we can just look at RCC and see it is not in alognment with teachings of Christ.
T:Let me demonstrate. An atheist sees a photo of several Christians sitting at a dinner table bowing their heads and praying. It would SEEM to an unfamiliar witness that these people were worshipping food.
M:Joh 1:5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
T:When a man kneels down on one knee and asks a woman to marry him, it may SEEM to a person who sees this photo that the man is worshipping the woman.
M: Perhaps it is wrong to kneel down.. i do not see it in the Bible anyway...
T:It could ALSO SEEM to someone visiting a pentecostal church that the people bowed before the front ... coming forward for an altar call... that they are worshipping the pastor.
M: In some cases maybe the people are worshipping the pastor.That does not anyway change the truth...
T;... And they would be wrong on all accounts.
M:Not nessesarely.
T:Learn what Catholics teach and pay no attention to those who try and deceive with photos of obelisks and pope worship.
M:But Teresa if the photos are from real life? Where is the deception? I mean the obelisk is there is it not?
People gathered in thousands in Sweeden the other day to kind of worship the pope.
Could you picture Peter or Paul letting people do somthing like that??
T:Catholics ONLY worship God. Not Mary, not the saints, not objects. We worship God alone.
M:Do they pray to Mary? And worship must be true. If people fake it God knows it.
John4:21Jesus said to her, Woman, believe me, the hour comes, when you shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22You worship you know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23But the hour comes, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeks such to worship him. 24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
T:And Catholics have ALWAYS conquered and redeemed what was GOD'S in the first place.
M:The worship and honor belongs to God and His Son Jesus Christ.
Acts14:12And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker. 13Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people. 14Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out, 15And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:
T:If you see obelisks in a church front yard in Rome... look at what is at the top! It is crowned with a CROSS signifying the conquering of paganism.
M:Acts 19:19Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver.
Deut7:5But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire.
Jud6:25And it came to pass the same night, that the LORD said unto him, Take thy father's young bullock, even the second bullock of seven years old, and throw down the altar of Baal that thy father hath, and cut down the grove that is by it:
T:If after you read this blog you still wish to discuss why I should leave Catholicism, then--when I am done with my current project--I will try and engage you.
M:ok
T:But I have discussed these things with many Protestants and have yet to find even on objection against Catholic dogma that is not thoroughly debunked by those who know Catholicism well.
M:Swissguards.Obelisk.Dragon.Babylonian cross.Bank.Preast-class.pope on the trone.History of torture and burning people.
May the will of God happen in Jesus Christ name.
SMH:Thus, earthly icons (not idols) are used as symbolic representations (as is the Pope) to help order our thinking towards the glorifying and worshiping of our one true God.
M: John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
SMH:They remind us of who we need to give thanks to and also who we need to depend on - that is God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) alone.
M:John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
SMH:Markus, I don't understand how you can't see that everything on the earth belongs to our one God & has been given to us to use in any way we want as long as it is directed toward the glorification of Him.
M:Yeah,but God knows if we are hypocrites.
SMH:The Israelites were cast into the desert for 40 years because they couldn't see that. They chose to see only the earthly, wanting the earthly, and kept turning away from their true God & instead continued, like the Egyptians, to glorify and worship the earthly.
M:Hebrews 3:17But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
SMH:I am thankful for everything that God has given us that helps direct us to Him and our resurrection into the New Jerusalem
M:John 14:26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Luke 11:13If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
SMH:- He created & ordered everything for that purpose - Alleluia, Alleluia, Hosannah in the Highest! Peter said,"Now who is going to harm you if you are enthusiastic for what is good?" (1 Pet 3:13)
M:Yes God will protect us when we are enthusiastic about the truth.But not if we harden our hearth and close ourselfs for Truth.
SMH:And thus, I have faith that our Catholic enthusiasm in using God's creation has been developed by the Holy Spirit for almost 2000 years for the good of glorifying our one true God and will protect us (the Church) from harm. For all of this and more, I love being a Catholic, Markus. I have no fear. I bid you peace and goodwill.
M:I advice you to read book of revelation around ch 17.
And ask yourself what is the meaning of a harlot.
May the will of God and Jesus Christ happen in your life in Jesus Christ name.
-Markus
Markus,
Catholics and Protestants interpret scripture differently. Each one of the scriptures that you have brought up simply do not apply to the Catholic beliefs you are bringing them up to try debunk. Often when I engage in discussions with Protestants, it is like one person trying to explain Shakespeare's Hamlet starting in the middle of the play. You need to start from the beginning to make any sense of Catholicism. So I will try and quickly do that:
From Genesis we find that there is going to be a woman whose seed will conquer the Devil. The Hebrew does not say "He will strike (the snake's) head, but it is often translated this way. Giving the impression that Christ is the one who crushes the head of the snake. And indeed He does through the Cross. But there is much more to this reference. God specifically called the conqueror--the seed of the woman! (God could easily have said it was the seed of Adam, but He chose the woman for a reason) Now that is interesting.
The original Hebrew uses a genderless word referring back to the seed of the Woman. This is a prophecy of Mary who stands for the Church and through the Church, Christ's Body.... the Devil will be taken out. Of course this is Christ but Christ working THROUGH His Kingdom. Just as God worked through Israel in the old covenant, God works through His people (the Church, kingdom) in the New Covenant.
The entire reason for the covenants is to bring as many men to Christ as possible for we know that God wants ALL men to be saved. 1 Timothy 2:4--who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. If you will read the Prophet John's bringing the first glimpse of the gospel to the world he does not say, "Have faith alone!" What he says is "Repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand."
This is the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM--not invisible, not nebulous, not about words--but about a New Covenant people who will be the extension of the Davidic Kingdom. A real people in a visible kingdom--just like Israel. Jesus spoke about this earthly kingdom He was coming to open up for the whole world. Read in Matthew where the gospel writer's FIRST description of Jesus is "Son of David." This is a REAL earthy kingdom brought in By CHRIST. He began it. And if you read the description of the kingdom, over and over Christ says that it will be full of wheats and tares--fish that will stay and fish that will be tossed out. AT THE END of this age, Christ will come and separate the sheep from the goats that were INSIDE THE KINGDOM, SO WE KNOW the kingdom now is not perfect--just like Israel was no perfect.
Yet this flawed kingdom that has all nations and tongues will be untied together under the apostles of Christ and have Christ's promise that He will be with them to the end. This is the Woman (the Church) To whom God attached Himself. And when God attaches Himself with His Bride (the church) NO MAN can rend asunder.
Think of that... NO MAN--no matter how corrupt from the inside or outside--no man will be able to take God from His precious Bride (the woman to whom the seed was promised who will crush the head of the snake!) Oh man, has God's Church been attempted through the two thousand years to be taken down! St John told us in his letter that the antichrist WILL COME OUT of the true church. And so we better identify the true church! Right?
So this church (who is the woman in Genesis whose seed will crush the head of the snake--the devil) is clearly identified as Mary the mother of Jesus. For Mary is the woman in Revelation who stands in Heaven with the twelve stars.
Part II
So we see that Christ brings a CHURCH/KINGDOM with Him that He begins AT the Cross. And that church is the Catholic Church. For no other church goes back to the apostles but the Catholic/Orthodox. This has been and continues to be HIS kingdom.
Let's find some more Biblical evidence--look at the prophecy of Daniel 2. A rock from heaven (Christ) comes and smashes the feet (which is Rome) and sets up an everlasting Kingdom. What did Christ name Simon? the ROCK! This was CHRIST'S title!! Both Peter and Paul went to Rome and established the Kingdom of God right ATOP the gates of hell (which was an actual place during the first century the Romans placed in their fair city!--but I don't want to make too much of that--just an interesting note.) So Daniel foresaw the Kingdom of Heaven BEGINNING in Rome.
Okay one other point (I could go on for ages, but don't have the time) but this is vital to understand the differences in how the Protestants and Catholics VIEW scripture:
When Christ left the earth to ascend to heaven, he did not leave a book (the Christian Bible would not be birthed for three hundred years!). He left a PEOPLE a kingdom, a church with His authority. Not perfect. Look at the disciples!! Wow! By no means were they closes to be infallible. Yet Christ gave them HIS infallible Word and at that time it was oral. They were to go out and spread--not truth--but the KINGDOM (see Acts 1) For forty days after Christ's death, He instructed His Apostles about how to run the KINGDOM He was entrusting them to.
You see Catholics believe when you are baptized you are baptized INTO God's kingdom (His family) where there you will find the truths and laws of His Kingdom. The Catholic Church is the New Covenant ARK. The Catholic Church is His Bride and ONE FLESH with His Body. The two are one flesh! And no one can rend them asunder (even corrupt popes and cardinals and bishops and priests and laymen!) What God hath joined together with Him......
We teach the Kingdom has begun here with the Catholic Church and we are awaiting the Bridegroom in the Second Coming to come and glorify His Bride--the GREAT Day of our consummation.
The Protestants teach a gospel of correct ideas ABOUT God. They believe that in order to have faith in Christ and be saved, you must believe certain correct information. It is a gospel solely about correct words. Think this way---believe this information--have faith in THIS correct Biblical interpretation about Christ and you are saved. (And each Protestant Church has their own checklist of what is correct information to have faith in.)
Catholics believe that you enter the eternal Kingdom of God at Baptism. The gospel is not simply about correct information, but being a part of God's Body as His Spouse (or children--both work.) It is a covenant of family. So if family bicker about what interpretation of scripture you can be assured that God is piloting the Boat through the pope and the boat will not get too far off track. And if it does.... God will correct the trajectory, because He built the boat and anointed the captain who is especially graced with the Holy Spirit to guide the boat.
Part III:
The Bible, whom the Catholic Church put together at the councils of Hippo and Carthage in the 4th century--supports the Catholics Church. We do not go to the Bible to guide us anymore than a child goes to His Father's memoirs to guide Him. The Catholic Church PUT TOGETHER God's memoirs that became known as the Bible. (OT AND NEW). They knew which of all the hundreds of written works out there claiming to be written by an apostle were authentic, because of the oral tradition that had been passed down. They used what CHRIST had taught them to know what books to include in the New Testament and which to put aside. They knew what truths Christ taught and which truths were gnostic or Judaizing because they were HIS appointed leaders of His kingdom.
If a Christian is to believe scripture, they MUST believe God inspired the Catholic Church (up at least to the fifth century) or you cannot with any logic or rationalization believe scripture! Because we preserved it, translated it, copied it, died for it for all those centuries before the Bible was canonized. If you have no faith in Catholicism, you might as well forget the New Testament! If the Catholic Church was corrupted, so was the Bible.
You can't have it both ways. It doesn't work. The Bible (directly-- the New Testament) IS a Catholic Book. We put it together for liturgical purposes so that the readings in all the churches would be the same. (For centuries other books had been included--such as the Shepherd of Herman, The Epistle of Clement, the Apocalypse of Peter, etc.... these were seen as Scripture---- In some areas, other books were never read--such as the Book of Revelation and the second letter of Peter.) God gave His church the responsibility to know what books were inspired. There was no way they could know that IF they were so corrupted by that time. After all, they were ALREADY honoring Mary and invoking the saints to pray for them and teaching the real presence in the Eucharist--all these were known since the first and second centuries!
I suggest you read the writings of Ignatius of Antioch and Justin Martyr, Polykarp and Ireneaus in order to see what the early church believed WAY WAY before the Bible came about.
As a Catholic I believe that it is the most important thing that I belong inside the New Covenant ark--safely inside His Kingdom EVEN if the church gets some things wrong--even if they don't get the correct interpretation of scripture--even if they have bad leaders. BECAUSE Jesus began this church. It is His and I have FAITH in Christ that He will keep His promise no never leave nor forsake her. That the gates of Hell will NOT prevail against His church for He has given her the task of crushing the head of the snake... and God would NEVER abandon His promises nor His Bride.
Sorry about all the typos... several times I was booted off during the writing of it and had to copy and paste and when I copied it onto the pages....the auto-correct messed up a few words and I obviously didn't paste it perfectly. Sorry. Please let me know what you don't understand. But you CANNOT discuss Catholicism with a Catholic without understanding they they believe Christ started the Catholic Church. Period. End of story. All the prooftexting you want to do is in vain because we believe God began a church! That Church has His authority to interpret scripture.
Of course the typos does not matter to me..( I myself misspell alot.) The main thing is that we can undersstand what the other person is trying to explain and what they to get across. It was valuable to get to know how you view things.
Godwilling I will give my thoughts on your comments.
But for now this verse came to mind; (They went out from us,)
1John2:18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.
20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.[e] 21 I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. 22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son. 23 No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
24 As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is what he promised us—eternal life.
26 I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. 27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.
Hello Markus!
It is interesting that you posted that verse. It is a perfect verse to prove the Catholic Church. You see St. John the Apostle wrote it in the fist century. And he said the the antichrist "went out from us." So the antichrist is someone who goes out from the true church. But that is not all--the antichrist denies that Jesus is the Christ--denies the Father and the Son.
Well, we must trace back and find out who the "us" church is John is referring to. For it is from the TRUE church the antichrist flees! What Church was at the time of St. John--the one that has withstood the centuries and still exists? The Catholic Church! No other Church (other than the Orthodox) still exists from that time--for the antichrist to come out of now? See what I mean? So the antichrist, according to St. John either came out of the Catholic Church in the past or will in the future. (And there are many antichrists.)
Also, there is nowhere in the Catholic Church history that they have EVER said that Jesus wasn't the Christ nor have they denied the Father and the Son. So we can know for CERTAIN with great confidence that the Catholic Church nor any of its popes is the antichrist. It just doesn't fit the description in any way.
Blessings to you! And perhaps to discover who the real antichrist is... we should find a person who teaches that Jesus is not the Christ and denies the Father and Son AS WELL as comes out of the Catholic/Orthodox Church.
Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and to every good work reprobate.
Anonymous,
I am not sure what you mean by posting that verse? Are you agreeing with me by saying those without good works deny Christ and do not really know Him?
Answer to part I;
Lets look at what the book of Galatians says about the seed.
Gal3:16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,”[i] meaning one person, who is Christ.
An do you not think that the stone coming down crushing the statue in the book of Daniel could represent Christ´s return to earth?
And about the woman.
In the old testament Israel was refered to as a woman. Somtimes as a prostitute.
And in 2 cor 11 in new testament the boby of christ is refered to as a bride.
2cor11:1- I wish you would bear with me in a little foolishness. Do bear with me! 2 I feel a divine jealousy for you, for I promised you in marriage to one husband, to present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3 But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by its cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure[a] devotion to Christ.
So,the seed, Christ is the one who removed the curse and defeted sin and death.
The woman is depending on context either a nation,a people a city or the Body of Christ(the true church).Or a harlot...
The woman in revelation with the 12 stars. Could that not be a representation of his people aswell?
Answer to November 9, 2016 at 3:57 PM;
T:I am not sure what you mean by posting that verse? Are you agreeing with me by saying those without good works deny Christ and do not really know Him?
Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and to every good work reprobate.
M:in a previous comment you wrote;
T:Also, there is nowhere in the Catholic Church history that they have EVER said that Jesus wasn't the Christ nor have they denied the Father and the Son. So we can know for CERTAIN with great confidence that the Catholic Church nor any of its popes is the antichrist. It just doesn't fit the description in any way.
M:Titus 1:16 says that there are people who profess Christ but in works they deny him. Do you not think the RCC deny him in works?
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