Showing posts with label ex-Adventists. Show all posts
Showing posts with label ex-Adventists. Show all posts

Wednesday, March 20, 2013

The Sabbath, It is Finished


For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Matthew 5: 18 
I tell you I will not drink again of this fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom. Matthew 26:29

Seventh-day Adventists believe that in these two texts Jesus was speaking of the fulfillment of all things at the Second Coming. That the law given to the Hebrews at Sinai is still in effect (at least some aspects of it) for Christians today because the Kingdom hasn’t yet come. According to Adventists, not a jot or tittle can be changed because at the Cross, all things were not fulfilled, God’s Kingdom did not come.

But what if, what if, at the Cross all things were fulfilled and the Kingdom of God came? Think about it. What if the Kingdom of God actually came at the Cross and resurrection of Christ and God mission was fulfilled --every single jot and tittle?

That is why today, most Christians do not follow the Old Covenant, but the New Covenant. We believe God absolutely fulfilled all of His mission to save at the Cross and with the resurrection the Kingdom of God came onto the earth.

When Jesus came to earth, He was the Word made flesh. Jesus was God’s Word! Jesus came to fulfill the Law and Prophets. He was the Torah incarnate and with His death a profound change in all human history occurred. With the resurrection a new order was established with a new heaven and a new earth. 

The Kingdom was fulfilled

Let’s look at all the texts in the Book of Matthew that show Jesus fulfilled the Law to the very last jot and tittle while on earth:



“All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet.” 1:22 
“This was to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet, "Out of Egypt have I called my son.” 2:15
“Then was fulfilled what was spoken by the prophet.” Jeremiah.” 2: 17
“And he went and dwelt in a city called Nazareth, that what was spoken by the prophets might be fulfilled, “He shall be called a Nazarene.” 2: 23
But Jesus answered him, "Let it be so now; for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness." Then he consented.” 3:15
“...that what was spoken by the prophet Isaiah might be fulfilled.” 4:14
“Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfill them.” 5: 17
“This was to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet Isaiah, “He took our infirmities and bore our diseases.” 8:17
“This was to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet Isaiah,” 12: 17
“With them indeed is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah which says: 'You shall indeed hear but never understand, and you shall indeed see but never perceive.” 13: 14
“This was to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet: “I will open my mouth in parables, I will utter what has been hidden since the foundation of the world.” 13: 35
“This took place to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet, saying...” 21: 4
“But how then should the scriptures be fulfilled, that it must be so?” 26: 54
“But all this has taken place, that the scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled.” Then all the disciples forsook him and fled.” 26: 56
“Then was fulfilled what had been spoken by the prophet Jeremiah, saying, “And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him on whom a price had been set by some of the sons of Israel,” 27:9

Every jot and tittle at the Cross was fulfilled. Now a New Covenant has come. We see this specifically noted in the final moments before Christ died.

The Kingdom came at the cup on the Cross


I tell you I will not drink again of this fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom. Matthew 26:29

At the Last Supper, Jesus declared to His disciples that He would not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom came! Adventists assume this is still to happen when Christ comes again. And yet the scripture indicates that at the cross Christ specifically asked for and drank wine right before His death. 

After this Jesus, knowing that all was now finished, said (to fulfill the scripture), "I thirst." A bowl full of sour wine stood there; so they put a sponge full of the sour wine on hyssop and held it to his mouth. When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, "It is finished"; and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit. John 19: 28-30

So at the Cross not only was all finished but the Kingdom of God came. And this mustard seed of a kingdom will continue until Jesus comes in the clouds and brings the New Jerusalem, the capital city of God’s kingdom on earth. 

Tuesday, February 14, 2012

To Leave or Not To Leave, That is the Question

For years people have assumed that I want Adventists to leave their church. Well, yes and no.

More than anything I just want people to follow Christ. There are many Adventists who are called to leave and it is extremely difficult for them. They are plagued by fears of deception and of going to church on Sunday, and if you are an former SDA you won't need me to list out the other fears placed in you by Ellen White.

If you are called to leave Adventism, I wrote a book for you to help ease the transition out. I did it out of love because leaving was for me a very traumatic experience. I loved being an Adventist. My Adventism was like living in an episode of "Leave it to Beaver" or "Andy Griffith." My Adventism had been sweet and innocent, comfortable. Sabbath, in my heart, had an ethereal glow from sunset to sunset and it was my favorite day of the week. It just seemed strange to give up such a good culture to walk into a culture that might have been more theologically correct, but a lot less sweet and comfortable.

For me, leaving Adventism was like walking from a sunny day into a cold, scary dark cave, and it took enormous amounts of courage. But I knew I was following Christ and He had my hand.

Our book, "It's Okay NOT to be a Seventh-day Adventist" was my way of helping those after me see a light at the end of the tunnel, to know that someone has gone before and made it through. A field guide to shine the light on those scary shadows in the cave that may make you run back into Adventism.

The other side is better, full of a joy and peace you didn't know existed. Knowing Christ, post Adventism, is like discovering a treasure beyond your wildest imagination.  You breathe differently, more fully, with ease. Things smell and taste better. You feel as if you were let go from a prison that you never knew you were in. It takes so much faith and courage to do that. Often people stay Adventist because they don't realize there is something so much better.

For those called out? Yes, I want them to be obedient to God and enter into a greater life of Christianity, united with the entire Body of Christ.

But I also think that there are some that God calls to stay in, not to defend Adventism but to bring her into a deeper understanding of the gospel.

It is kind of silly to send missionaries out to those who don't understand the gospel when you are smack dab born into one. Some Adventists are supposed to stay in as missionaries within Adventism. After all, the majority of SDA beliefs fall within Christian orthodoxy. They just need to see how a few of their doctrines are not biblical. What would happen if God removed all His people from within Adventism? That would be catastrophic for these wonderful people.

God is leaving a remnant of Adventists within its system to baby step them out of their erroneous doctrines into the light. Inch by inch we are seeing this happen. For the momentum is towards Biblical Christianity and the few who have not yet been liberated from SDA traditions are loudly reaching back towards the past trying to grasp onto the wrong doctrines to prevent any more movement. I think this historic Adventism leadership is temporary.

God has plans for Adventism, for their good and not evil. He isn't going to abandon them, but keep enough people inside to keep the gospel alive that they may grow into a healthier church.

Do I wish that a miracle would occur and instantaneously all SDAs could see the truth and we would all then become united as one Body of Christ, with no more suspicions and skepticism of other Christians? Of course yes, but love is patient....

As anxious as we former SDAs are to grab our family and friends and pull them into our joy, our liberty and show them the beauties of Jesus from outside Adventism, we must trust God in all things.

I know God in-sources SDA missionaries and we need to give them enormous support, (as long as they are not excusing disobedience to God calling them out!) for it has got to be terribly lonely in there.

So if you are one, I stand behind you. Don't see our ministry as against you but pulling for you.

However, I do think the vast majority of Adventists are called to leave, not stay in. While there are those given extraordinary skills to perform self-surgery, I think most of us need to out source our theological healing. We need the fullness of the Body of Christ to be healthy as Christians.


Thursday, January 19, 2012

The GREAT DEBATE: Worshiping on Sunday: the first 3 Centuries

I would like to invite Seventh-day Adventists or any Christian to enter this debate.


CALLING ADVENTIST APOLOGISTS! Come and post your evidence for this important topic. It is silly for me to be arguing your side. We want to be fair to you....! Since Doug Batchelor just wrote a book having a debate with himself, I thought we would invite him here to debate another person. 


If it is not against God's will for us to worship on Sunday today, what scriptural evidence can you bring to the debate that backs up your prophecy that one day worshipping on Sunday will be against God? 

That is your claim. Defend it Biblically.



The topic/proposition being debated is:

Christians worshipped on Sunday for the first three hundred years of Christianity before the time of Emperor Constantine

To avoid confusion, two generic names will head each side:


Non-SDA Christian Apologist 
The Proposition/Positive side (Non-SDA) should attempt to prove this statement.
vs. 
Adventist Apologist 
The Opposition/Negative side (Adventist) should attempt to disprove this statement.

*******************************************
RULES:
Sources that will be accepted are:

  •  The Bible: (Catholic and Protestant) mainstream translations such as ASV, KJV, NIV, NASB, RSV, etc. No paraphrases.
  • Primary sources: Sacred and secular writings of the first three hundred years. 
  • Secondary sources: Generally accepted ecclesiastical histories such as written by Eusebius, Bede, Schaff, etc.
Only sources accepted by mainstream Christian churches will be allowed. Sources, when possible, should be easily available for referencing. Internet links are encouraged.

All comments will be reviewed before posting and those with clear, logical arguments will be posted. Sarcasm, insults or rude comments or comments that are deemed irrelevant or illogical will not be posted. Please be clear and concise, keeping all comments related to the topic. Editors may cut your comments if too wordy or redundant and correct spelling and grammatical errors.

We will attempt to give equal time (space in this case) for both sides.
********************************

 All are welcome to post in the debate. Questions will come at the end, so as you watch the debate be thinking of questions you wish to ask of either side.
_____________________________________

OPENING STATEMENTS

Non SDA Christian Apologist:
The proposition of the debate is to prove that the early Christians worshipped on Sunday. 

Why is this debate important? Because the Seventh-day Adventist Church teaches that the only day of corporate worship that God approves of is the seventh day, Saturday. Their last-day prophecies include a test of Christianity based upon what day you worship God. They predict a law will be passed that forces everyone to go to church on Sunday. Those who attend church on Sunday will receive the Mark of the Beast and will not be saved. Seventh-day Adventist who remain true to God's appointed Sabbath will be imprisoned, tortured and even killed by those who go to church on Sunday.

This elitist doctrine that teaches Sunday is the wrong day to worship wounds us all, permanently cleaving the Body of Christ in direct disobedience to Christ's command that we unite as Christians. 

The proposition is not about a sabbath rest day. It is a debate to prove that Sunday has always been a day of worship for Christians. There is no Biblical evidence, no prophecy, that worshipping on Sunday was, is or ever will be wrong.

We will be looking at historical evidence to prove that indeed, the early Christians from the time of the Apostles up until the time of Constantine worshipped corporately as a body of Christ on Sunday.

If the early church worshipped on Sunday before the time of Constantine then:

  • Worshipping on Sunday will never be a sign of disobedience to God’s laws nor will those who worship on Sunday receive the Mark of the Beast. 
  • The SDA Sunday law prophecy is not from God and causes a unchristian elitism and disunity in the Body of Christ. 
Again, we remind those reading that this is not a debate about Sabbath, so please keep all comments within the structure of the debate topic. This is about worshipping on Sunday. Thank you.
__________________
Adventist Apologist:

Since there have been no counter introductory statements, I will attempt to write one for the SDA side. I will happily remove mine and insert an Adventist Apologist side when I receive one.

This is indeed, for the Adventist, a very important subject. And since you have narrowed the field of debate considerably, I feel we cannot get at the heart of the matter. For, as an Adventist, the heart is a rejection of the Sabbath, not worshipping on Sunday. No Adventist believes it is wrong to worship on Sunday or any day of the week. 

There are differing opinions within Adventism about when Christians began to worship on Sunday, and there are differing opinions about how trustworthy primary sources are when using historical accounts outside of scripture. 

So, defending the SDA position, I will point rather to scripture instead of early Christian writings. What man wrote just doesn't really matter, it is what God thinks that is important. Just because the early church practiced something, doesn't give it positive proof that it was of God.

The SDA side will attempt to prove that there are two faulty lines that you have drawn:

1. You presume, Teresa, that even if the early church celebrated the Lord's Day on Sunday, that they did so in obedience to God. It is very possible they worshipped on Sunday to avoid persecution or as a concession to Rome.

2. You also presume that if the early church did worship on Sunday that it somehow negates an end-time scenario where a day of worship is the test for Christians. Your assumption is a non-sequitor.

As an Adventist Apologist, I will attempt to prove that:

  • First, there is no definitive Biblical proof that the early church worshipped on Sunday. That interpretations of certain texts that may give that impression are debated even among non-SDA theologians. 
  • Secondly, there is Biblical proof that a rejection of the Sabbath commandment (the 4th commandment) as a last day test of Christian fidelity to Christ is firmly rooted in scripture. 
Thank you and we are looking forward to a vigorous, logical and Christian debate.

[We will be keeping this Opening Statement available for an authentic Adventist Apologist.]
_________________________________

SECTION ONE: Presenting of the Evidence

Non-SDA Christian Apologist:

Mr. Adventist Apologist, I think you have made two very good points and one of them I must address in my evidence. I agree that I should prove that the early church went to church on Sunday, not out of fear, not out of coercion or compromise, but as a part of following the Apostle's directive. I think we can do that. And I think I can do that with scripture alone, even if I will add to that evidence plenty of primary sources of individual Christian historical accounts.

Your second point, that it is a non-sequitor to assume just because the early church attended church on Sunday does not automatically negate an end-time prophecy pivoting upon a day of worship. Good catch.. you are correct. 

But then I must point out to you that it will be your responsibility to prove that the scriptures do indeed specifically indicate a day of worship as a last day test. You cannot base such a monumental and divisive doctrine on a whim--you will have to prove such a test with direct biblical evidence.

Okay to begin, I must start with the Old Testament because it builds a foundation of worshipping God on Sunday that is used by the Apostles when they meet for worship. Remember at that time the early church was mainly Hebrew. They carried forth a lot of the elements of worship into Christianity. Even worship on Sunday.

The Hebrews in Jerusalem did not have one day a week they worshipped corporately. They worshipped daily at the temple. We know this not only from Old Testament sources, but new. The writer of the book of Hebrews recorded: 


Now when these things have been so prepared, the priests are continually entering the outer tabernacle performing the divine worship. Hebrews 9: 6 
Please note that divine worship is happening daily! (See also Heb. 7:27 and 10:11) 
Every Sunday there was worship going on. All day long people would be coming to worship and give offerings and sacrifices. Everyday worship occurred. Every Sunday worship was going on in the Temple.  Once in the Promised Land, only three times a year was there a mandatory holy assembly for all Israel at the Temple and they would often fall on Sunday.  (Lev. 23 convocation on the weekly Sabbath is debatable, many Hebrew scholars says that this particular command for a weekly Sabbath was only during the Tabernacle period in the wilderness, for travel logistic reasons.)


Exodus 12 and Leviticus 23 record the Feast of the Unleavened Bread (Passover) and specifically called a “memorial” and a holy assembly. It is commanded to be kept as a permanent ordinance. On the first day is a “holy assembly, and another holy assembly on the seventh day; no work at all shall be done on them, except what must be eaten by every person, that alone may be prepared by you.” (v. 47)  “All the congregation of Israel are to celebrate this.” 
Leviticus records the seriousness of this, “any person who does any work on this same day, that person I will destroy from among his people.” The holy convocation of Passover can occur on Sunday. The last one being 2008.
And he shall wave the sheaf before the Lord for you to be accepted; on the day after the sabbath [Sunday] the priest shall wave it. Lev. 23:11
The day of Pentecost, another holy assembly can occur on Sunday. Leviticus 23 requires  
On exactly the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when you have gathered in the crops of the land, you shall celebrate the feast of the LORD for seven days, with a rest on the first day and a rest on the eighth day. 
You shall also count for yourselves from the day after the sabbath [Sunday], from the day when you brought in the sheaf of the wave offering; there shall be seven complete sabbaths. You shall count fifty days to the day after the seventh sabbath [Sunday]; then you shall present a new grain offering to the Lord.
Sundays as well as Saturdays were considered holy assemblies. One was not pitted against the other. See also Number 28:18. 
This year, in 2012, the Jews will celebrate the two holy convocations of Pentecost on Sunday. 
There has never been a time that worshipping on Sunday would be considered going against the commandments of God. God would not have required His holy assemblies of all Israel to occur on Sunday if this were wrong. 
There is no indication anywhere within the pages of scripture that would suggest that any day is a wrong day to worship God. Or that there would be a last day test on a day.

Now we go to the New Testament.  Does the New Testament specify a day, and only one day we should worship God? No!
Where is He who has been born King of the Jews ? For we saw His star in the east and have come to worship Him. Matt. 2: 2
This does not specify a day. Would Joseph have sent them away if they arrived on a Sunday? 
Nothing Christ did can be dismissed as accidental. Everything He did and when He did it was significant. Jesus went to the Temple daily to teach. (Mark 14: 49). If worshipping on Sunday were somehow wrong, wouldn’t Jesus have cleansed the Temple specifically on that day and explained to everyone that Sunday was the wrong day to worship God? 
On Sunday, Jesus conquered death by rising and showed Himself to His followers as the Divine God! (Matt. 28:1; Mark 16:2, 9; John 20:19) On Sunday, Thomas worshipped Him! (John 20:27-28). That evening, on Sunday, Jesus worshipped with them at the Communion meal (Luke 22:19; Luke 24:31) and gave them His Holy Spirit and His peace then commissioned them to be the leaders of His Kingdom by forgiving sins (John 20).
The church was born on a Sunday at Pentecost. (Acts 2: 41)

And if this isn’t enough, these two text alone should wrap up this subject:

Day by day continuing with one mind in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they were taking their meals together with gladness and sincerity of heart, Acts 2: 26 
And every day, in the temple and from house to house, they kept right on teaching and preaching Jesus as the Christ. Acts 5: 42. 
Every single day the disciples came together to worship, including Sundays. How do you think there were souls being added to their number, being baptized daily? (Acts 2: 4, 47) These early Christians were very Jewish in their rituals and worship of God would be included in all of these baptismal rites. They worshipped every single day including Sunday. There is no evidence anywhere that they avoided worship on Sunday if it were wrong.
Paul worshipped God by having a communion service and preaching on Sunday. (Acts. 20:7)

Then we go to early historical accounts by Christians: 
In the early part of the second century, maybe as early as the lifetime of the Apostle John (c.100-130), a Alexandrian Christian leader named Barnabas wrote a letter to an unknown audience. Although the letter was not considered inspired; it was widely read among Alexandrian Christians as authoritative and historically accurate. In this letter, the presbyter acknowledges that, “we keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead.” This letter shows how early the church was celebrating the Lord’s Day, Sunday. 
Scholars are confident about dating Ignatius’ letter to AD 107. As the third bishop of Antioch who was taught by the Apostles, he was held in great respect for his courageous martyrdom. He clearly shows the early church’s ideas about worshipping on the day of “new hope,” Sunday:
 ...living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him...let every friend of Christ keep the Lord's day as a festival, the resurrection-day, the queen and chief of all the days [of the week]" "Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians," 
Justin Martyr was a second generation Christian and one of the earliest known Christian apologists. He wrote, in the mid second century less than fifty years after the death of the last apostle (First Apology, ch. 67):
And on the day called Sunday all who live in cities or in the country gather together in one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read....But Sunday is the day on which we all hold a common assembly, because it is the first day of the week on which God...made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead.
The Apostolic Constitutions, dated sometime in the second century commands that “On the day of the resurrection of the Lord--that is, the Lord's Day--assemble yourself together without fail, giving thanks to God and praising Him for those mercies God has bestowed upon you through Christ.”
Bishop of Lyon, also a mid 2nd century Christian leader, also tells us that the church worshipped on Sunday--all the way in Gaul, “The Mystery of the Lord's Resurrection may not be celebrated on any other day than the Lord's Day, and on this alone should we observe the breaking off of the Paschal Feast.”
Going down south to Greece, we find the Bishop Dionysius writing in AD170 to the church in Corinth that they pass Sunday, “this holy Lord's Day, in which we read your letter, from the constant reading of which we shall be able to draw admonition.” Eusebius, Ecclesiastical History, Bk. 4, Ch. 23
At the end of the 2nd century, we travel farther south to Egypt where Clement, the Bishop of Alexandria, records that the Christian, “keeps the Lord's day.”  Bk 7, Ch. 12. And Bishop of Africa, Tertullian records this in his Apology, “We solemnize the day after Saturday in contradistinction to those who call this day their Sabbath.” He even refutes the pagan claim that the early church worshipped the sun, because they worshipped on Sunday, “[It is supposed] that the sun is the god of the Christian, because it is a well- known fact that we pray towards the east, or because we make Sunday a day of festivity.” The Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 3, p. 123.
All you have to do is type in the person into google and you can easily find the original source. 
Israel was called by God to corporately worship on Sunday. The early church met to "break bread" or hold communion worship services on Sunday--in fact every singe day. There is no indication anywhere in any writings that they were compromising their beliefs. There is no evidence anywhere, no cry from a prophet or pastor that condemns Christians for worshipping on Sunday. 
Therefore I cannot find a shred of evidence anywhere that God would, all of a sudden, 1800 after the dawn of Christianity suddenly give a new reading of scripture and a new vision of Christianity to a small group of Seventh-day Adventists condemning worshipping on Sunday. 
_____________________________
First presentation of evidence for Adventist Apologists is open for anyone now....please send in your position comments now.

Sunday, January 15, 2012

Reclaim Your Faith- Review of Doug Batchelor's Series


Reclaim Your Faith, live from Maryland, is Doug Batchelor's attempt to bring inactive SDAs back to church.

Actually, I love Doug Batchelor, even if I dislike his preaching style, his serpent-like hisssing of his "s's", his geriatic humor and I am convinced that his self-deprecating humor masks some serious arrogance issues, amen? Yet, I mean it genuinely when I say that watching him in his own fantasy world is endearing, like a little boy with pillowcase tied around his neck as a cape playing Superman.

SO: If you are a fan of Doug Batchelor and enjoy his speaking techniques, his humor, his style of preaching,

If you are an Adventist who believes in the doctrines of your church,

If you are an Adventist who has become bitter against God BECAUSE someone in the church hurt you,

If you are actually watching the Hope Channel and therefore, must be right on the edge of coming back anyway,

THEN you might think about coming back to church as you listen to this series.... The problem is that Doug either really doesn't understand why people leave or he has deliberately chosen only to address that very minute group that are already tipping towards the SDA side of the fence. Up front, he states that those who have doctrinal issues need to go to the SDA website and sign up for Bible study classes. He knows none of us are coming back, so he doesn't waste his time. Which is smart.

I am now about to finish the third sermon in the series and so far no one had mentioned this being a SDA production. There have been a couple references to Sabbath, and I must admit I fast forwarded during the music, so it is possible I missed something... But in general--no SDA specific sermon--only come back to Jesus.

It is extremely doubtful that anyone will return to the SDA church from this series who isn't already making their way back, and where Doug goes very wrong is in his trivialization of why people leave WHEN they leave because they have been hurt. He tells this story about a dementia-sick grampa who yells ugly words at a guest and compares that to why people leave. Is Doug really thinking that trivializing the trauma some Adventists go through with their church going to win them back? Doug needs to address the incest, the clerical sexual abuse, the abandonment issues kids have from absentee parents who gave all to their church, serious religious abuse... (there are some deeply wounded SDAs out there); if you really wanted them to come back BECAUSE they left on issues of interpersonal relationships then deal with the hard stuff....

The SDA church and its privately-owned affiliates are spending a ton of money to recapture wandering members. Unfortunately, Doug resembles an ER doctor tending a hemoragging car crash victim by an entertaining chorus of "put on a happy face" (with an occasional Adventist-appropriate body sway). This is just the wrong medical procedure.

So far, the series has only fought the departing with an emotional appeal. I suppose that will work for those who quit attending because of superficial emotions. Judging from the loud, defensive "amens" coming from the audience when Doug points out that we who left are angry, bitter at God or hurt over things such as music or money issues--I wonder if this isn't an elaborate show for them. Show the church members that we are really trying to get our lost ones back, without dealing with the issues that will actually get them to return.

This series is definately a kinder and gentler Doug Batchelor, carefully edited of all SDA references and doctrines, as if blurring the church's identity gives all of us formers spiritual amnesia. In the end, I should be glad that the SDA church isn't persuasive, logical nor intelligent in its call for us to return. Less pigs returning to their own vomit, I guess. However, I really wished that the church would tackle the real reason we leave.

Imagine if, instead of playing the spiritual heroes by conquering their own designed strawmen, they would courageously dialogue and listen to former Adventists? Imagine if they would be open to hearing a pure Biblical message untainted with Ellen White and see us who now live in Christ's freedom.

Sigh.


Now I am playing in my own fantasy world. So, I will keep praying and hope....