Keep It Complex, Stupid

I HAVE TO SAY THAT SOMETIMES CHRISTIANS  ARE A little... judgmental. Does that make me judgmental to notice judgmental Christians? Well anyway, judgmental or not, I’m going to write what’s on my slightly irritated heart. 

Here’s a conversation that frequently occurs with some Christian and myself: 

   “I truly enjoy Peter Kreeft, he is so intellectual,” I sigh with stars of spiritual love in my eyes.

   “I prefer simple myself. The gospel should be simple,” The Christian says so sweetly and self-righteously and bats her eyelashes upon large eyes. 

   “Oh, okay. I just..” feeling a bit awkward here, I look down and shuffle my feet, “I just meant that I think....”

   “I love Jesus. We should talk about how we love Jesus, don’t you think? All that doctrine and religion stuff, it’s not really what Jesus would want us to talk about, you know,” her voice lilts with sincerity. "I don't mean to be mean-spirited, so don't take this personally, but I really think that people who love to talk theology don't know Jesus in their hearts."

   “Well," I start again, "I... I don’t think there is anything wrong with learning things that are deep. You know, the deep mysteries of God.”

I am starting to feel a little defensive here and hate that I am feeling defensive. I should have no animosity towards someone who wants their spiritual life to be simple. So I mentally cross myself and pray for grace. The person usually gives me a great big spiritual grin, puts her arm about my shoulder and adds a syrupy piece of advice.

“Well, bless your heart. As you mature in Christ,” she whispers, “and I’ve been a dear friend of Jesus for many years, you will learn that it is best to be simple.”   

The person might at this moment touch my hand gently. She is sincere, I don’t doubt that. Then she walks off with a gospel-sharing glow.

These encounters make me feel judged-- as if my yearning for theological heights is anti-Christian. Perhaps I shouldn’t but I do feel these are subtle put-downs. I usually go to confession after these moments and pray for the person. I need to for my sake. 

But I ask myself, is it actually important to keep things simple?

Finding Complexity

You see, I crave something brilliant in theology. I need to know on a constant basis that God is amazing and His thoughts and His ways are infinitely above mine. This makes me feel secure. I see the complexity of creation and know theology must be like it. God made me a researcher, a perpetual student of His awe and for some reason that seems to intimidate other Christians--perhaps making them feel judged by me. (At least that is how I am taking the situation. I may be wrong.)

I sought this deep desire for theological brilliance and wisdom out. I dug for it and raced for it and pled for it and purchased this pearl of great price. I actually found it and...

It is wonderful to be humbled by the theological greatness I found in the Catholic Church. It was deep and complex and they drew from the Bible things that send spiritual shivers down my spine. At first I was skeptical, then miffed by Catholic answers to my questions, then I was furious and finally thunderstruck with exquisite shock. They were right and I was wrong. 

They were right and I was wrong.

Instead of being irritated by that fact, the humiliation turned quickly to a sweet humility that flooded me with an inexpressible gratitude. God is bigger than me. My brain cannot contain or fathom or invent such a wonderful church and its theology as I have discovered in the Catholic Church. 

The Complex via Simplicity

Guess what! I am not God. The Catholic Church forced me to understand that very simple little gem of theology but it took their crushing brilliance and complexity to do it!

That kind of pure humility is bliss. It gives you both joy and peace. I...am...not...God! My brain is nothing in comparison to God’s--that is a vital part of the gospel and that is such good news.

The Catholic Church not only satisfied and satiated my need for deep theology, I feel overwhelmed by it. Where I was craving a drop of liquid spiritual wisdom in former denominations, I found I was crashed over by a tsunami of Christian giants of the past 2000 years in Catholicism and now I am floating upon an ocean of radiant sagacity swimming among the great saints. 

For me, Catholic thought has been heaven--a vibrant complexity of diamonds sparkling with billions of little lights all shining upon some new facet of God’s love. 

Please don’t think I am in any way knocking simplicity. I’m not at all. If God draws you to simplicity I am thrilled for you. But God did not make me that way. Let’s unite and not let this divide us in Christ. 

Seventh-day Adventist on Doug Harris and a Debate

Came across this on youtube and thought it was interesting:














http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-9L2ysiqDA

Praying to Mary

 Here is what Adonai says: "The earnings of Egypt, the commerce of Ethiopia, and men of stature from S'va will come over to you and become yours; they will come in chains and follow you. They will prostrate themselves before you; they will pray to you: 'Surely God is with you; there is no other, other gods are nothing.'" Isaiah 45:14 (Complete Jewish Bible)

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Protestant (shaking his head): I simply do not understand how you can worship Mary and idols. It is disgraceful and against God.

Catholic: We neither worship Mary, nor idols.

Protestant: Come on! I see you guys bowing down and praying to Mary. That is against the Bible!

Catholic: If I can show you in the bible where God Himself has people bowing down to others and praying to them, would you then re-assess your idea about Catholics?

Protestant (skeptically): It's in the Bible not to worship anything other than God. So no, its not in the Bible.

Catholic: In Isaiah 45, God specifically tells Israel that the people of surrounding nations will come before them, bow to them and pray to them. (See above text.)

Protestant: Your misinterpreting the text.

Catholic: No, look it up when you get home.
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Protestants are shocked when they discover that the words “bow” and “pray” in the Bible don’t exclusively mean worship. People bow to elders, parents, people of other nations, monarchs and angels in scripture. They even bow to inanimate things such as the Jerusalem temple and the Holy of Holies. Bowing can be used as a part of worship, but it can simply be a sign of respect for people and things.

It is the same with prayer. Note that in the Hebrew phrase above, "they will pray[palal] to you" the exact translation of the word palal (Strong’s # 06419) is an interceding prayer. 

Protestant Bibles often translate the Hebrew palal as “supplication” or “plead.”

KJV--they shall fall down unto thee, they shall make supplication unto thee... 

NAS--And will bow down to you; They will make supplication to you... 

ASV--and they shall fall down unto thee, they shall make supplication unto thee... 

NIV--will bow down before you and plead with you... 

NLT--They will fall to their knees in front of you... 

CEB--they will bow down. They will plead with you... 

ESV--bow down to you. They will plead with you,

But many translations use the word “pray.”

BBE--and they will go down on their faces before you, and will make prayer to you,  

GW--They will bow to you and pray to you, 

LEB--and they shall bow down to you; they will pray to you,    

NCV--They will bow down before you and pray to you,  

MSG--Hands folded in reverence, praying before you, 

Many of you might ask if this is the same word used for praying to God? Yes, the vast majority of the time palal is used to indicate a prayer to God. Here are some examples: 

Abraham prayed unto God [for Abimelech], Gen. 20:17.
Moses prayed unto the Lord, the fire was quenched. Nu. 11:2
 And she was in bitterness of soul, and prayed, Sam.1:10 
...they pray unto thee toward this city, 2 Chr. 6:34   
...when he prayed for his friends, Job 42:10 
...for unto thee will I pray, Ps. 5:2  
And I prayed unto the Lord, Dan. 9:4 

Before we go any further we need to stop and make this point. Even if end up disagreeing on the interpretation of this text, we can agree that this text is indeed in scripture that the Catholics didn’t make it up. Right there it says there will be bowing and praying to someone who isn’t God.

Catholic church interprets this text literally. You may choose to interpret the text another way, but you can never say that Catholics do not have a “proof-text” for their doctrine that says we can pray to others besides God.

For to Catholics this word palal is exactly what we mean when we pray to Mary and the saints. We are pleading with them, entreating them, supplicating them to intercede for us with Christ, exactly as Abraham prayed in behalf of Abimelech, Moses prayed for Israel an Job prayed for his friend in the above references.

We can ask our friends to pray for us. Indeed we can pray to God’s leaders (especially those reigning with Christ in heaven), even bowing to them, kneeling to them and supplicating them for intercessory prayer in our behalf.

This is Biblical. Catholics are praying/pleading with Mary and the saints who are right now in heaven to intercede before God for us. As we see in the text, God is quite happy with that.

They will prostrate themselves before you; they will pray to you: 'Surely God is with you; there is no other, other gods are nothing.'" Isaiah 45:14 (Complete Jewish Bible)