TO MY MOTHER, THANK YOU

I recently cleared out all the stuff from my storage unit and I have been going through my

memorabilia. While I am finding out in some ways I have a good memory of how I perceived my childhood, other things I have been chuckling to find out how wrong I was. I had forgotten all the sports our family did. I remember being boy crazy, I remember being sensitive and dramatic. But my grades are not as good as I remembered and my handwriting is atrocious. And unhappily, my plays and short stories were not even as close to being interesting as I remembered. I thought I was a lot more creative than I really was! There is ample evidence that I tried anyway! I know these things to be true since I kept a diary and did a lot of writing, I have proof.

However, I have forgotten something till

yesterday, when I opened up a Bible I had in my childhood. First, though I want to back up and give some context.

We lived in a huge home in Lakewood, and area in Dallas, Texas. And I was not yet in kindergarten. I remember being in the kitchen and I asked my mother if I could marry Jesus when I grew up. She told me that Jesus was God and didn't get married. Well, that was disappointing!

"Can I marry daddy?" "No, I am married to daddy," my mother explained to me. Now I was getting very upset and there was no other men I could think of that were good. "Okay, then I will marry Little Edmund," my older brother. When mother told me that was also not possible I was concerned. While I understood about dad and Little Edmund, I still couldn't quite understand about Jesus. He wasn't married, after all.

My mother kept Jesus always before us in our house. She sang children's songs about Jesus all the time. First to us then I got to listen as she sang to my little brother and sisters. Looking up at my mother, I thought she was an angel from heaven. I really did. No exaggeration.

My mother once told us when we were children that our shoulder blades were leftovers from our wings when we were in heaven. I believed her. Only I didn't really think hers were gone. I always saw her with a soft halo over her head and phantom wings coming off her shoulders.

I remember my mother being very kind. I felt awful one day when I spilled my milk, thinking I had done something terrible and she wiped it up and told me, very sweetly that it was only milk and people were more important than things. She had to tell me that a lot growing up. 

Mother had a way of showing both judgement and mercy that was very much like I think Christ will be. She was relentless about making us admit what we did wrong and apologize, but then all of a sudden once the apology happened, all was well again. The gloom of guilt and embarrassment was over and I found out the sun shown brightly again once you did the right thing. The wonderful world was restored.

It seems like we had family worship every Friday evening from the time I can remember. Once when it was my turn to pray, I said something and my mother said, "amen" and I thought she was telling me to end my prayer and I started to cry. She gently told me that "amen" meant that she was agreeing with what I said. I was so relieved!

The greatest thing I could imagine was being like her, my mother.

Growing up we were very involved in church. As soon as I could, I started teaching in the kindergarten Sabbath School because I thought my early teen Sabbath School was disrespectful to God. Our family sang a lot in church and often in the choir. We sang at the Dallas jail to the prisoners many Sabbath afternoons.

I

wanted to be baptized when I was ten or eleven and went to our church youth pastor and I was told I was too young. One year, on my birthday, I decided to start a Bible collection and saved the money I received and also the money I got at that next Christmas and purchased a little leather Bible for my purse. I wanted to start memorizing scriptures and needed a Bible small enough to take in my purse.

I remember the money in my pocket and entering the Christian book store. I found the beautiful little leather Bible with much excitement and I had some money left over. I spotted a clearance table and there was a huge Bible called The Jerusalem Bible on sale for five dollars. That was going to be the second Bible in my collection. I was so

excited. Sitting in the back seat of my car riding home, I was puzzled because when I was looking through my new and exciting purchase, I realized there were some strange books added. My father told me I had accidentally purchased a Catholic Bible. That made me feel weird, so I put that book on my shelf and decided I wouldn't read it till I was older. But my collection had begun and I was excited.

I also made a commitment to read the Bible all the way through once a year. Some days I forgot, so I would skim as fast as I could through to catch up. Which did me no actual spiritual good, but I had made a pledge to myself and God and I wasn't going to break it!

Isolating these incidence makes it seem like I was this little saint of a child. While I loved Jesus from the time I can remember, mostly I loved Jesus because I loved my parents. I felt Jesus must love me a lot to have put me in my family and so I would never be bad. Never. Ever. I wouldn't make Jesus cry over something I did because that would hurt Him and my mother. 

The vast majority of my childhood I was obsessed with boys. I was going to marry a minister and have eight children. Therefore 70% of my childhood thoughts were of love and romance. Jesus was the structure, but inside that structure were boys, my siblings and my dreams for life.

However, there was something more yesterday when I was looking at my little purchases that day after school when I was (twelve, I think) that made me smile.

My name is Teresa, spelled without an "h." My mother's name was the same but spelled with an "h. However, no one ever called me by my name, for I had a nickname. I signed everything with a nickname--all my school papers, my poems and plays. So when in later years I thought I had lost my little leather Bible, I decided to write my name in each of my books so if anyone found one, they could return it. My nickname was in most books. In the Bibles, I wrote "Theresa."

And I remember exactly why. In my Bibles, I wanted to be the best me I could. I wanted to be reverent and holy. I added the "h" to my name so I could be more like my mother. For there was no one I could imagine being more like Mary the mother of Jesus.

4 WAYS TO KEEP YOUR CHILDREN FROM LOSING THEIR SOULS

My husband works very long hours, so when we are together in those few precious moments of the morning, we try and concentrate all our

conversations into what is important. We do very little chit-chat. We always start the day at 5 am. drinking coffee, reading the Bible and praying. Then, we have about ten minutes to talk. It's always something important! (So I think, anyway. Yeah, that picture is exactly how we look at 5 am.) 

This morning, as most mornings in the last couple years, we discuss what has gone wrong with our world, with Christianity, with the USA, with our smaller circle of family and friends. 

There is perhaps a backstory I should drop in here: I began about five years ago researching what happened to our country that we could so easily let it slip out of our hands without most people even realizing it and those who do realize it, feel there is really nothing that can be done. Oh, we have had some attempts, like the Tea Party, but I always feel deep down we are scratching the wrong itch. At its root, our nation doesn't really have a Constitutional or liberty or bigotry or cultural or economic or immigration or terrorist problem. If you trace all those symptoms back to their root, we find there is a heart and soul problem. But what is that problem? I know a lot of people will say sin or a lack of Christ, but how does that manifest itself? How would a historian track sin's path in America? That's what I want to discover. And so, most mornings, we discuss different theories about how and when and why America has fallen. 

Okay, now back to this morning's episode in the daily drama of our morning conversation.

I have noticed that parents, at least in my life experience which goes back to the 1960's, don't act upon what is best for their children. Most parents live life as they want to, pursuing their own goals and fit their children into their life. Empty slots of time and energy? Okay, let the kids fill them. But, their first priority is work and most of America has a two-parent working household.

Whether mothers have to work or whether they want to or should or shouldn't isn't really the discussion here. What has amazed me is that parents seem to be oblivious to their children's temptations and struggles, and if they do realize them, they often do not make a plan to get their kids out of the situation and then follow through or act upon the plan. Parents today seem to be unable to derail the inertia of the trajectory of their own lives in order to help their kids.

I am not speaking of parents sacrificing their time, energy or money to give their kids a swimming pool or going to hockey or football games or a trip to Disney World. I am talking about making sacrifices that have to deal with their spiritual well-being. That thought doesn't even occur to the parents I have been around.

Generation after generation of parents have fallen prey to this illusion that as long as their kid's name is on the church membership and church school roster, they have sacrificed enough. That's it; they feel they have done their job. Then they go on to--me time. They do little, if any real soul-searching and deliberation about getting their kids into heaven. Or at least figuring out a way their kids can surviving the minefields of temptation to sin that Satan has sowed in all the fields they will be skipping across during their childhoods here on earth.

I can hear many of my reader's thoughts, "Hey, that's not me! Where is she getting this?"

My response: My childhood was in Dallas, Texas. But I have lived all over the US. However, everywhere I have lived I see some of this. But mainly my experience comes from my twenty years in the SDA mecca and holy city of Keene, Texas.

Keene is a small Seventh-Day Adventist town south of Dallas. That is where my kids spent their childhood. I was actively involved in both their school and their youth groups. I paid attention. I mean I really paid attention. I couldn't understand why parents there turned a blind eye to their kids seeing inappropriate things on television and movies. I saw a majority of parents either be oblivious to or ignore when their kids were disrespectful, bullies, used bad language and then later these same kids started trying drugs and became sexually active.

When I heard their conversations in Sabbath School (Sunday School for other Christians) and saw their potentially long-term destructive activities in elementary and high school, I would talk to them and when necessary, talk to their parents. The parents often would get highly upset that I would dare to speak of their child in any way but as perfect. I assumed they just didn't want to have to do the hard thing and take care of their children. In fact, when several girls attempted suicide, one girl began cutting herself, and a boy succeeded in his suicide attempt, I ramped up my efforts to let the parents know what I was seeing when they were not around.... okay, do something!

I am horrified to report that almost none of the parents even saw themselves as part of the problem. They blamed everything else, even me for warning them. I look back on those kids I 

loved so well and most of these kids lives have been shattered with unnecessary pain, unwed pregnancies, divorce, drug and alcohol abuse and even jail time. These kids were abandon to make stupid, self-destructive choices while their parents were right there-- just buried deep within their own activities.

My husband made the comment that most parents aren't even aware that they can do something about the kids' situation. They can see the problem but they think they are hopeless to act in any different way than they have been programmed. It would never even occur to them that perhaps they should talk to the child, get the child away from the situation, get another teacher, classroom, set rules and follow through, move to another city to get the kids away from bad influences, or turn off the television/iPhone/computer. I was assuming that these parents were making willful, selfish decisions, being irresponsible, while Arthur was making the case that many of them simply had no categories in their way of thinking to even know how to parent. They can't parent because they never saw anyone parenting.

I think we can also add to this that when parents have made bad choices in their lives, often they assume there is nothing they can do to stop their children from making poor, destructive choices. They act as if they do not have the right to instruct their children because they were so stupid when they were young.

It is frustrating that for those parents who do want to be good parents often get the worst advice from "experts" and grandparents and teachers and pastors. 

My parents were some pretty good sources of wisdom because they had six children and my mom studied diligently reading and trying different things out. She also was a full-time stay-at-home mom which gave her the ability to focus on doing the right thing as a parent. But I have to tell you, as a child, most of the mothers of the people in my classroom didn't have to work but they were pretty awful parents. I watched terrible parenting from the beginning of my life in my friends' families.

We, as Christian parents, really need to wake up and smell the spiritual battle going on for the souls of our kids. Quit ignoring the world around you--especially your children's world. Quit assuming that you have to bear up under hopeless passivity. Make a plan and act.

And if the problem is more than in your particular home, if it is a systemic, cultural problem--get out of that environment. If necessary, move if you see a problem where your children are unable to cope with a temptation. MOVE. Move schools, move cities. No excuses. Your child is more important than...."fill in the blank."

Here's why this is important. Because:

1) While we must teach our children how to deal with certain temptations, remember that Jesus didn't say when temptation overwhelms you in a certain environment--try, try again to fight it off. Jesus said to flee temptation. Especially when your kids are too immature to know how to fight 

temptation. Teach them it's okay to flee--they are not being quitters and giving up. Flee because that is what Christ commanded us to do. (2 Tim. 2: 22) Show them by your own example, by fleeing overwhelming temptation yourself.

2) When your children see you take firm, decisive action against evil, they will know that it can be done. You are not passive and enslaved by circumstances--that a human can fight back even just by getting out of the situation. They will learn by your example of action.

3) They will see that they are worth you taking action--their souls are of inestimable value to you and God. Talk about giving your child self-worth! That is a message that will drive down indelibly to their souls way more than you showing up to their piano recital. Take action!

4) And finally, when your children see you suffer for them--their parents suffering--for them--the extraordinary action of losing a job, moving or acting to save them in a sacrificial way--they will understand the Cross better. One other thing, gird your loins for this, because your child will inevitably hear mockery, condemnation and scorn from other parents who may not be willing to sacrifice their jobs and homes for their children's spiritual or physical safety. They will loudly condemn you as irresponsible. If your children come to you with these criticisms, just calmly tell them it is because you are willing to do anything to follow Christ and see your child in heaven. You will have shown them a little of Christ's Cross and it will make an impact for the rest of their lives.

There is no formula for perfect parenting, nor to ensure a child will want to follow Christ. But what I can see in Christian parenting today is a total lack of planning a strategy of actions for your children's spiritual health. It's as if they really don't want to believe it is possible for their children to go to hell or that they can act to help assure their children will not be faced with a lifetime of digging themselves out of the mess they made with poor moral choices.

There is so much more I could write on this subject, but I have wandered around enough today and this topic was the point of this morning's discussion with my husband. God bless.

SOLA SCRIPTURA: CATHOLIC AND PROTESTANT DIALOGUE

[

[This post has been updated at the end.] 

MY PRAYER IS NOT FOR THEM [Apostles] ALONE. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. John 17: 20-23

Often I hear that Catholics are not Christians. And of the people who believe this, there are some who believe that Catholics so dangerously distort the gospel that they cannot unite with them in prayer. So, effectively, these certain Protestants live in a state of anathematizing Catholics by avoiding them. I write the following to defend my faith, not to proselytize Protestants but to show them that Catholics do not reject scripture, they just interpret it differently.

Protestants will most likely still disagree with a Catholic perspective, but perhaps a respectful debate and a heart that is open to listening to the Catholic interpretation, will allow these people to see that Catholics are truly Christians. And rather than fighting each other, we should turn our spiritual swords and energy to fight the dark forces in the spiritual battle knowing that we are on the same side. And by uniting in prayers and in spreading the gospel of peace,  as the Body of Christ, we can fulfill Christ's greatest hope and his last command before His death—that we all may be one.

A Conversation with a Protestant: 

Protestant: Protestants believe the Bible is the highest Christian authority. We are sola scriptura. We don't believe in following a pope, a system set up by the traditions of man.

Catholic: We totally agree with your point that Christians should never trust a system that was set up by the traditions of man. We believe that Christ chose His apostles who then formed a church and passed on Christ's teachings. That the Apostolic Church wasn't set up by man but was set up by Christ and given His authority.

Protestant: We don't believe that.

Catholic: I know, that is why you are Protestant and not Catholic. Right? Because if you believed that Christ started the Catholic Church and gave the Catholic Church His authority, you would be Catholic and not Protestant, right?

Protestant: Christ didn't start the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church started at the Council of Nicaea in the fourth century.

Catholic: Let me ask you a question. Just go with me here for a second. What if you found out, without question, that factually Christ did start the Catholic Church. What if you found out that Christ did give the Catholic Church His authority, would you become Catholic?

Protestant: No, because even if you could prove Christ started the Catholic Church, it became corrupted and so it lost it's authority.

Catholic: Okay, let's go down that road. Let's assume the Catholic Church did become corrupt, what in scripture tells us that:

1.  God sets up authorities that do not make mistakes or do not become corrupt?
2. God give us the authority to decide when His authorities are corrupt?
3 God gives us the authority to divorce from His authorities and go and become our own authority or start another church? 

Protestant: There are lots of texts that say we should shun someone who gives a false gospel and what about all the texts against wolves in sheep's clothing? By their fruits we shall know them. And so if the Catholic Church has false shepherds and bad fruits then we don't have to follow them.

Catholic: This is where Catholics and Protestants part ways in their interpretation of scripture. We interpret those texts as God telling the Church—as a whole—not the individual—that they must throw out and excommunicate false shepherds. The church should examine the fruit and make the call, not individuals. Matthew 18 makes that pretty clear because when a person sees another sinning, they should first go to that person privately and exhort them. But after that, the person doesn't excommunicate them and walk away. No Jesus said then you take witnesses for the next confrontation. No individual gets to pass judgment. You must have witnesses. But then, if the person doesn't turn from their immorality, it is taken to the church and the church makes the final call—and only then, after the church has made the final call can the people disconnect from their brother. 

Protestant: So what if the church itself is corrupt? Then how can a corrupt church make a right decision about false shepherds. That is the blind leading the blind.

Catholic: Throughout history God has allowed, in fact, anointed men as His authorities who have fallen to the depths of corruption. Judas is an example. But in fact, when you look at all of the Apostles, they all ran away when Christ was arrested. All of them deserted the Lord when tested. Yet, they are not as bad as the white-washed tombs and hypocritical snakes who were authentically anointed as God's Israelite leaders found throughout the Old Testament. These men caused Israel to go astray and worship idols and sacrifice their children to Molech. These were very weak if not demonic men, and yet God didn't give Israel the okay to follow their own leaders or start a new Israel. Nope, in fact Jesus told the disciples to avoid being like those who sat in Moses seat, but that they still must carefully obey them. (Matt. 23).

Protestant: That was before the New Covenant was established.

Catholic: Yet, God established authorities for the New Covenant also and we are to be subject to them.  See: Matt. 10: 2, Luke 11: 49, Acts 1: 2, 26, 42; 4:33; 5: 12;  8: 18; 15:4; 16:4, I Cor. 12: 27-29; Eph. 2: 20; 3:5, 4: 11, II Tim. 4: 3,  I Thess. 2: 6, James 3: 1,  2 Peter 3: 2, Rev. 21: 14,

Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.  Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience. Rom. 13: 1-5 

(Many Protestants limit the "governing authorities" to civic only. That would make no sense considering the theocracy that Israel lived under.)

You know that the household of Stephanas were the first converts in Achaia, and they have devoted themselves to the service of the Lord’s people. I urge you, brothers and sisters,  to submit to such people and to everyone who joins in the work and labors at it. I Cor. 16: 15-16

Have confidence in your leaders and submit to their authority, because they keep watch over you as those who must give an account. Do this so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no benefit to you. Heb. 13: 17

See also: Ephesians 5, 6, Colossians 3 and I Peter 2, 5, II Cor. 2: 9

Protestant: If we take those verses literally and as meaning for today, then we at least are supposed to follow the shepherds who are closest to the Bible.

Catholic: There are two false premises that fundamentally underlie that statement. Number one is that you assume your understanding of scripture is infallible and that you have God's authority to choose your authority.

In raw reality, people choose authorities that will not challenge their way of thinking. People choose their spiritual authorities like they vote for their political authorities. They go with the one who agrees with them. They want their civil government to reflect what they see in the mirror, just like they will make their God out to reflect what they see in the mirror. 

We have to be brutally honest with ourselves. Does the Bible really tell us that the sheep are equipped to choose their shepherds? I don't see that in Israel. They would have ousted Moses many times as well as many other judge and king God anointed.

And secondly nature tells us that even if our God-appointed authorities are imperfect, we don't get to choose them. Kids do not get to choose their parents, but scripture tells children to obey them.

Protestant: Well, I won't obey the Catholic Church, I absolutely totally would never, ever believe they were God's authorities.

Catholic: I understand. But if they were God's authorities, you would obey them, right?

Protestant: They aren't.

Catholic: But you would obey God's authority or authorities if you knew them to be God's authorities, even if they were corrupt, right?

Protestant: God would never ask me to obey corrupt authorities.

Catholic. I know what you are insisting on. You are believing that corrupt authorities will take you to hell. I totally get that. But if God were to appoint authorities and tell you to submit to them, you would wouldn't you?

Protestant: Only if they taught the Bible. As long as they have the Bible correct.

Catholic: So you have set up guidelines for God? So children can disobey their parent's if they disagree with their parents theology or if their parents sin? So God allows children to judge their parents theology and lives in order to accept being obedient?

Protestant: We are not children in the New Covenant.

Catholic: So God does not give authorities to His people in the New Covenant.

Protestant: Yes… but they have to go by scripture.

Catholic: So you believe that God's authorities will go by your interpretation of scripture to be authentic?

Protestant: No, just go by the clear Word of God.

Catholic: The clear Word…. according to your interpretation. And if they don't you are free to disobey and go find another authority or go start another denomination. Can you show me in scripture where it says that?

Do you see how your argument is endlessly circular and endlessly unworkable? Your argument is basically that I have the God-given right to decide who my authority is based on my interpretation of scripture. So God's way is that the sinful, uneducated, immature human gets to choose to whom God has given His authority. Is that what you believe?

Protestant: No, I believe the Holy Spirit will guide me.

Catholic: Does scripture tell you that the Holy Spirit guides you infallibly to choose your authority?

Protestant: Yes. The Spirit will bring us to all truth.

Catholic: Then why do you need an authority at all? If you are infallibly guided by the Holy Spirit, why do you need scripture at all? Why not just trust the Holy Spirit in your heart and be done with it?

Protestant: The Holy Spirit guides me to the Bible as Sola Scriptura.

Catholic: Is that what scripture says? That the Holy Spirit guides you to the scriptures as your highest authority and the scripture guides you to the church as your highest authority in moral debates among Christians?

Protestant: The Bible says the Bible is the highest authority.

Catholic: Could you show me that in scripture?

Protestant: St. Paul told Timothy that the Bible is God-breathed and "are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,  so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. (II Tim. 3: 15-17)

Catholic: So Paul, who was given authority to teach, told Timothy that Christians were allowed to disobey authority because they had the Bible? Is that what the Bible says?

Protestant: The Bible says to follow the Bible.

Catholic: The Bible also says to obey your God-appointed authorities.

Protestant: As long as they go by the Bible.

Catholic: Show me where the Bible specifically states that God allows a Christian to jettison His appointed authorities because they don't agree with their interpretation of scripture. Can a child walk away from his father because he disagrees with his father about scriptural interpretation?  Let me ask you an honest question?

See how ridiculous this argument is if you substituted our earthly father in the circular reasoning. The Protestant child would then say that the didn't have to obey their father because their father had a difference of opinion about the doctrine of Sola Scriptura.

        The child could say, "I refuse to believe God wants me to obey you dad because I believe the scriptures are my final authority." 

"But honey, " the dad responds, "the Bible says you are to obey me."  

      "Yes, but only if you believe in Sola Scriptura," the child responds.
"I am your final authority according to scripture," says dad, "So if you really consider the Bible God's Word, you will obey me."
"But you don't believe in Sola Scriptura, so God wouldn't want me to have you as my authority."
"So if I told you that my highest authority was scripture, would you then obey me?"
"Yes, because you obeyed me and admitted I was right about the doctrine of Sola Scriptura."
"So you wouldn't obey me if I had said God made me your authority?" Dad looked puzzled.
"Right, you first have to meet my check-list of doctrines I believe to be true from scripture." The child insists. 

The Catholic continued: If you found out that the Catholic Church was truly an ongoing God-appointed authority, would you submit to them?  Because what Catholics have found is that most Protestants still wouldn't. They don't believe they have to submit to anyone. Isn't it true that for some Christians, the Bible alone doctrine is used to make the individual Christian their own authority and they wouldn't submit to the Catholic Church even if they found out God-appointed it as His Church?

At this point, the Protestants usually stop the conversation having the last word about the evils of the Catholic Church…. forgetting about the evils of the Protestant churches and completely ignoring the fact that they too are sinful and corrupt. And that if the same standard they held to judge the Catholic Church would be held to themselves, no one would ever be able to be an authority. No one.

And yet God placed His authorities on earth. In each family—both the small one of one man and one woman and their children as well as the New Covenant family. 

UPDATE: 

A couple of Protestants have objected to this post saying that I have not given the best theological responses for Protestants. I am absolutely willing to change the Protestant responses if someone gives me better ones. All I had to go off of was the answers I have experienced. 

However, understand that I am not interested in taking the conversation off topic. Or in the Protestant asking what they believe to be a better question. I invite Protestants to answer this question exactly as I have stated it: 

IF Christ were to have a church that He gave His authority to, would you obey it? Please don't answer.... "He doesn't have such a church." That is not the question. 

They point of this question is not to get into any other Protestant objections to the Catholic Church. It is to one: Show the Protestant that there is really no evidence they would ever accept for us to show Christ started the Catholic Church. Their position is not based on evidence. 

But the much more important point I am making is that Catholics have been convinced that Christ started the Catholic Church. 

For us to have any meaningful dialogue that premise is where we must start. We don't believe in in the doctrines of sola scriptura or in sola fide because we believe Christ started a church.

We remain faithful to the pope, not because we like him or think he is infallible or pray to him or think he is God. We remain faithful to the bishop in Rome because we believe Christ started a church. 

We are horrified by the priestly scandal and the witch trials and the inquisition and all other things the people in the church have done over its 20 centuries, but we understand Judases infiltrate us and people fail God but God will not fail Catholicism because we believe Christ started a church.

IF Christ started a Church and He gave it His authority, we will be a part of that church and obey her.... because of our love for Christ. Just as we would follow our biological fathers because Christ told us to. It is about obedience. Because Christ started a church. 

Once you understand where the Catholic is coming from (the Catholic perspective), and we understand thoroughly that you don't believe that...but once you have understood the basis of all our beliefs, we can discuss all the theological ideas you have--which are based in the Protestant perspective of sola scriptura. 

I hope that is helpful in our dialogues.