tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9194750015669984785.post6938348950235517112..comments2023-09-07T13:51:05.341-04:00Comments on From Seventh-day Adventism to Catholicism : Reality Is Better....Teresa Beemhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11912526855851742840noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9194750015669984785.post-19066502291520062652016-02-05T22:52:19.913-05:002016-02-05T22:52:19.913-05:00I'm a SDA pastor's son and I'm with yo...I'm a SDA pastor's son and I'm with you on SDA's disconnection to reality. In my own search for truth, I obtained an engineering degree and also realized that whole point of religion for most people is to make real life feel easier to bear. We are bound to face disappointment, hardship in family life and life in general, but SDA claimed to have a formula for the perfect family and life, through isolation, changing your personality, diet and behaviors. <br /><br />I found more comfort in believing life is gonna sucks sometimes but with the knowledge of Jesus loves me, it is bearable. The message of the religion should always be about Jesus, not some prophecies about you somehow being a martyr. <br /><br />EGW was a fearmonger, creator of a universe where everyone who don't listen to her will prosecute you, where the battle between good and evil hinges on your every moves, and your character and deeds will be recorded by angels and judged by her very high standards. <br /><br />I have seen many messed up things in SDA churches. They are probably on par with the average messed up level in world religions. =) The author of this post articulated it better than I can ever did.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9194750015669984785.post-60706164582342929772013-06-16T06:59:12.303-04:002013-06-16T06:59:12.303-04:00Anon,
Maybe we have different understandings of w...Anon,<br /><br />Maybe we have different understandings of worship. Worship is simply devotion of which is something that we should do everyday with all that we do. To recognize the Sabbath as a special day of devotion, one that we rest from our own works just as God did from His, is not contradictory. <br /><br />I would be very careful in searching the Scriptures of the NT for the an "explicit command" to keep the Sabbath. This is your paradigm being injected into Scripture. Jesus did much better than just simply repeat the command to keep the Sabbath holy, He showed by His example what the Sabbath meant and showed how it is to be kept (even the Catechism recognizes this point-2072,2173). Strange to go through the threat of death to restore the Sabbath if within a few years it was going to be obselote. And what about Hebrews 4? The author speaking particularly about the Sabbath rest that remains, never once links it to Jesus fulfilling it or Jesus' resurrection or Jesus' death(a perfect opportunity) but instaed links it to the rest of God at creation, of which the Sabbath commemorates. If you are going to insist on an explicit command than I think you should be fair and put the same standard of proof for Sunday being a holy day or your 3rd commandment. Jesus says "if you love me keep my commandments" and I look in Scripture and I see no command (explicit or implicit) to keep Sunday as a holy day. What I do see is that the Ten commandments have not been obolished (2053), are still binding and obligatory (2068), are to be interpreted as love (2055,2067), and not to be confused with the laws handwritten by Moses (2058). I look in Scripture and see no command to keep Sunday holy, not one mention of the Sabbath no longer being binding. So the evidence is there, if we let Scripture speak for itself, and not church fathers heavily influenced by pagan philosophy. <br /><br />I would be careful in using Teresa as a source for historical facts. I have already shown where she has omitted facts and contradicted herself. Truth is when I read her I think of Matthew 5:11-12 "Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake....so they persecuted the prophets who were before you." If EGW was a true prophet, I would expect all manner of evil to be spoken against her, and if I judge her on all manner of evil spoken against her, I certainly would come to the conclusion she was a false prophet. So she can not be judged by what people say, she must be judged according to Scripture! <br /><br /><br /><br /> <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Arikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02268678005280108576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9194750015669984785.post-67394522325904314422013-06-12T15:53:32.251-04:002013-06-12T15:53:32.251-04:00Thanks for your comment Teresa. I noted everything...Thanks for your comment Teresa. I noted everything you said. You are right when you say we shouldn't allow other fellow Christians stay in darkness. I can't believe the SDA church was built off of a false prophecy from William Miller. I never knew much about him until I came across your site and read a little about him. I couldn't read your notes on the side of your site so I did some internet searches. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9194750015669984785.post-29748839161092511912013-06-12T09:06:56.111-04:002013-06-12T09:06:56.111-04:00Having written that, Adventists themselves are rea...Having written that, Adventists themselves are really great people. They are sincere in their faith and follow what they have been sincerely taught. The dilemma about Adventists is that they are taught that everyone who isn't SDA are deceived and/or deceivers, so they are fearful of listening to anyone outside their group. They don't trust them, so they have a huge impediment to judging reality. It is frustrating. Most Christians just allow them to live in their own world, kinda like little Christian pets. Pat them on the head and just let them think what they want. To me that is disrespectful. They need to know truth. God doesn't have second class Christians. He wants all of them to know truth. Everyone deserves that.Teresa Beemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11912526855851742840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9194750015669984785.post-35047042698235389872013-06-12T09:01:24.764-04:002013-06-12T09:01:24.764-04:00Anon,
Seventh-day Adventist were begun by a smal...Anon, <br /><br />Seventh-day Adventist were begun by a small group of illiterate New Englanders who had been a part of a failing prophecy about the world ending in 1844. <br /><br />They have three distinctive doctrines that keep them from being mainstream Christians. These two doctrines were given authority because of the SDA visionary/prophetess Ellen White. If it weren't for her visions, these ideas would have been utterly dismissed as unbiblical, unhistorical and frankly, bizarre.<br /><br />1. They believe their little group was given a message by God to go into the world to preach the "everlasting gospel" (a new gospel in that it adds to what Christ and the Apostles). It is basically that in 1844 Christ started judgment in heaven. <br /><br />2. The Jewish seventh-day Sabbath is going to be the last day test of true Christianity. If you aren't worshipping on Sabbath, and you are worshipping on Sunday you will receive the Mark of the Beast and cannot go to heaven. <br /><br />3. The SDA church is going to be hunted down in the last days, tortured and martyred for keeping the Sabbath by Catholics and Protestants. <br /><br />This is the very basics. Again, they read the scriptures through Ellen White's and their other founder's interpretation. Because Ellen White had visions, they take this as God giving her the authority to interpret scripture and add new prophecies.Teresa Beemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11912526855851742840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9194750015669984785.post-38081615863325394482013-06-11T22:17:42.561-04:002013-06-11T22:17:42.561-04:00Arik, when you say that you worship God everyday t...Arik, when you say that you worship God everyday then bring up the 4th commandment to prove your point seems to contradict yourself. Your issue is what day other Christians worship on and I know u will say it's God's law, which I agree with. I'm sure I do not have to tell you that 9 of the 10 commandments are mentioned and the Sabbath command is not. Instead Jesus took over the Sabbath and rose on the first day of the week giving Christians new light. Now I have not read all of your responses but I see you say Teresa ignored historical facts but I must have missed where you listed your evidence for Sabbath keeping after the resurrection. I'm sure some non Christian Jews and others where still keeping Sabbath but I'm interested in facts for Christians keeping Sabbath and understanding Sabbath as the seal of God. I have read Teresa's evidence from early church fathers that you seem to have discredited.<br /><br />I have taken an interest in the history of the SDA church and it is somewhat confusing and very hard to understand, so please forgive me if I'm not making much sense. You and Teresa some to communicate often and I really can't keep up with all thant is being said. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9194750015669984785.post-68584212980085802032013-06-10T06:57:18.917-04:002013-06-10T06:57:18.917-04:00Anonymous I think you misunderstand, the issue cer...Anonymous I think you misunderstand, the issue certainly is not merely what day to worship God, we should and do worship Him everyday. The question is are we going to obey God (by grace through faith) and keep His law, including the 4th commandment, to cease from our works as God did from His since the foundation of the world? The Sabbath is a symbol of entering into His rest. The Sabbath itself does not bring the rest, that comes from God, and we can enter this rest any day, Sun-Sat. <br /><br />The real problem I have is Catholic "apologist" such as Teresa, who lack integrity by not admitting that the church changed the law of God. Case in point:<br /><br />The Catechism is very explicit that the decalogue has not been abolished (2053) is still binding and obligatory (2068) . Jesus acknowledged the Ten Commandments (2054), Required in the love of God and neighbor (2067), Interpreted in light of the commandment of love, the fulness of the law (2055), Not to be confused with the commanmdents written by Moses (2056). All of which agrees very much with Adventism. And when I look in Scripture I also see the Decalogue as still binding and I see the 4th commandment unchanged. But then the Catechism shows instead of the 4th commandment to keep the 7th Day holy, I see the 3rd commandment to venerate the day of the sun. It does not take a rocket scientist to correctly observe that somewhere in history the 4th commandment was changed to the 3rd. For surely not one mention of it is in Scripture. How can Catholic's such as Teresa maintain the church "didn't change the Sabbath?" Well that is easy, by not being true to Scripture, true to historical facts and true to the teaching of her own church. <br /><br /><br /><br /><br />"The idea of a "day" of worship was not really something Jews or Christians understood for many centuries because God's people worship daily."-Teresa<br /><br />From your book "It's OK NOT to be a SDA" pg 205: "Overwhelming historical evidence establishes that the first 300 years after Christ died and before the reign of Constantine the church did in fact keep Sunday as a day of worship." Arikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02268678005280108576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9194750015669984785.post-82111902079020458502013-06-08T20:29:41.936-04:002013-06-08T20:29:41.936-04:00Teresa worshipping God on any given day is not the...Teresa worshipping God on any given day is not the issue. We can and should worship Him every day, See how you entirely change the context? Acts 2:46 says not a thing about worshipping on Sunday, and can not be used to justify any veneration of the day of the sun. <br /><br />I never said "Contantine changed the Sabbath" he couldn't do that if he wanted, beside at the time of Constantine, the Sabbath was still being kept. Have you even read the law? It most certainly was a coerced day of worship. It commanded "Judges, town people, and occupation of all trades" (except agriculture) to "REST on the venerable day of the sun." The rest is commanded to specifically venerate (reverence, esteeme, honor [all religious connotations] Sunday.<br /><br />The simple matter of fact is I do not see Jesus or the apostles advocating for civil law to mandate any day whether it be Sabbath or Sunday to be venerated, or even as a day off, as you insist this religious law was. If you were true to history, instead of ignoring the facts, or simply writing facts off as "opinion" or down right deleting them as you did with Eusebius, it would be clear to you this union always results in persecution. Hasn't the church learned anything?<br /><br />BTW your false translation and omission of Ignatius' letter has not been addressed by the link you gave me. <br /><br /><br /> <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /> <br /><br /> Arikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02268678005280108576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9194750015669984785.post-84950463213954785782013-06-08T15:20:37.358-04:002013-06-08T15:20:37.358-04:00It is very hard for me to understand why it's ...It is very hard for me to understand why it's hard for people to understand why Catholics worship God everyday. It's even harder for me to understand why would people have an issue with Christians wanting to worship on the day Jesus rose from the dead giving us eternal life. It is even harder for me to understand why would people think God would be mad and send Christians to hell because we worship Him everyday or only on Sundays. I guess its one of the things I would never understand. It makes me sad that people who love God as much sda's do would believe that God would have an issue with Christians worshipping Him everyday.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9194750015669984785.post-54261342658099088912013-06-07T19:40:10.235-04:002013-06-07T19:40:10.235-04:00Arik,
You said church and state isn't Bibli...Arik, <br /> <br />You said church and state isn't Biblical. <br /><br />I showed you that God set up a church-state in Israel. So it is Biblical and one day God is going to set up a church-state under Iron rule. <br /><br />You then write, "It has no bearing on our discussion unless of course you are promoting a theocracy today!? A non Biblical idea under Christianity".<br /><br />I was merely pointing out that what you stated is in error. If it had no bearing on the subject then why did you introduce it? <br /><br />Sunday was a day off for the Roman Empire. It might have been a day of rest for citizens but it wasn't a coerced day of worship. Since I don't have my book handy at the moment I will have to assume you are correctly stating what I wrote. I can't remember Eusebius writing that though. Will get back to you when I find a moment to get a copy of my book. I think I might still have a copy around. <br /><br />However, nonetheless, Christians had always worshipped on Sunday since the beginning. The Bible tells us that in Acts 2:46. Constantine didn't change the Sabbath, he merely allowed Christians to attend worship then. <br /><br />The idea of a "day" of worship was not really something Jews or Christians understood for many centuries because God's people worship daily. <br /><br />Blessings to you Arik! <br /><br /><br />Teresa Beemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11912526855851742840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9194750015669984785.post-27445299394755537892013-06-07T17:16:08.658-04:002013-06-07T17:16:08.658-04:00Israel was a theocracy set up by God Himself, this...Israel was a theocracy set up by God Himself, this theocracy ended in the first century with the dispensation of the Gospel to the Gentiles. It has no bearing on our discussion unless of course you are promoting a theocracy today!? A non Biblical idea under Christianity.<br /><br />It is a very curious fact I find in your book. Capter 12 "Sabbath History" you give all this credence to your church fathers such as Ignatius, the Didache, the Letter of Barnabus, Ante-Nicene Fathers etc. to promote your idea of worshiping on the Lord's Day [Sunday]. Yet when it comes to Eusebius you recognize he did say "enjoined on all the subjects of the Roman Empire to observe the Lord's day, as a day of rest" (pg. 206 [no reference given]. And again on pg. 208 you recognize Eusebius' statement, again no referance given, "And all things whatsoever that it was the duty to do on the Sabbath, these we have transferred to the Lord's day," And you write this off as "simply his personal opinion." It is astounding to me how you will not look at history objectively, Constantine under the influence of Eusebius created a union of church and state, something that is not Biblical. It was much more than just a mere day off, it was a holy day created to venerate the day of the sun! <br /><br />It was not long after that persecution rose again, this time by the very church-state union. This is undeniable. There is nothing new under the sun Tresa, it is not Adventist who are keeping their head in the sand regarding history, thats a fact.<br /><br />Why mention the reformers? Isn't Scripture enough?Arikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02268678005280108576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9194750015669984785.post-3937483295731940632013-06-07T09:05:50.850-04:002013-06-07T09:05:50.850-04:00Israel was a theocracy that blended both church an...Israel was a theocracy that blended both church and state. That is biblical. <br /><br />Constantine didn't coerce Christians to worship on Sunday. Since the majority of his kingdom including pagans and Christians had a special day of celebration on Sunday, he gave everyone the day off. He didn't make them worship that day. It was a day off from work. It was with a later Emperor that made Christianity the state religion. <br /><br />The Romans had a history of persecuting the Jews and the Christians. Once the Christian persecution ceased, the Jewish persecution continued on occasion. <br /><br />Please be aware though Arik, that the Reformers had no such idea of a separation of church and state. Luther made the state God and Calvin started a theocracy in Geneva. <br /><br />Luther and Calvin and the early Anabaptist movement did not believe in freedom of conscience in religion. They killed their theological enemies with the same vengeance that is always attributed to the Catholics. <br /><br />Teresa Beemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11912526855851742840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9194750015669984785.post-4463929994689727532013-06-06T18:17:52.404-04:002013-06-06T18:17:52.404-04:00"Constantine wasn't the bad guy they port..."Constantine wasn't the bad guy they portray..."-Teresa<br /><br />Constantine most assuredly was the first to bring into existence the almagamation of church and state, a concept not found in Scripture. His Sunday legislation was not merely to "give everyone of every religion.....a mandatory day off" Its Ok NOT to be a Seventh Day Adventist" pg. 206. You said it well: "he gave a civil law to a church tradition." Ibid.,206. <br /><br />This is what make his reign so egregious to true Christianity. It is a fact that religious liberty and true faith are mutually dependent upon one another. To restrict and/or to compel religious liberty threatens or restricts truth itself. Truth unfolds to the one who lives and walks by faith. If we are prevented from seeking where it will, when it is demanded that the individual conform to certain religious doctrines or practices, no true spiritual grown can occur.<br /><br />Those that are in harmony with the government of God will never coerce the will of another to achieve their ends. God's way is to "draw all ment to Himself (Jeremiah 31:3, John 12:32) to receive us (Luke 18:17). When we choose Him (Joshua 24:15) tp turn unto Him (Matthew 11:28) we may do so "freely" (Revelation 22:17). His way and methods allow only for freedom of choice!<br /><br />BTW persecution did not end with Constantine now that he "converted". His church and state almagamation set up the church, who was the persecuted, to be the persecutor. Jews and those considered non Christians were persecuted by the church. That's a fact. <br /><br />EGW was absolutely correct "Compelling power is found only under Satan's government." Desire of Ages pg 759. <br /><br />For more information refer to AD 538 Source Book by Heidi Heiks<br /><br /> <br />Arikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02268678005280108576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9194750015669984785.post-58851746270657644042013-06-06T16:24:04.981-04:002013-06-06T16:24:04.981-04:00Arik,
Marcos and I have already had this discuss...Arik, <br /><br />Marcos and I have already had this discussions. It's in the comment section of this series: <br /><br />http://thejoysofbeingcatholic.blogspot.com/2013/02/connecting-dots-between-early-church_7997.html<br /><br />I think it is thoroughly dealt with there! God bless.Teresa Beemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11912526855851742840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9194750015669984785.post-62944988778502400622013-06-06T07:11:18.183-04:002013-06-06T07:11:18.183-04:00"Adventists have constructed a false reality...."Adventists have constructed a false reality. They live in a world of their own fake history. They don't go to the "deceptive" real history to learn that Sabbath was never changed to Sunday. Constantine wasn't the bad guy they portray..."-Teresa<br /><br />In your book "Its ok NOT to be a Seventh Day Adventist" you quote Ignatius as saying "Be not deceved with strange doctrines nor with old fables,which are unprofitable. If we still live according to the Jewish law, we acknoweledge that we have not received grace...no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's day...let every friend of Christ keep the Lord's day as a festival, the ressurection day." pg. 193.<br /><br />The problem with this fragmentary quote is that it is not accurate and can not be used to introduce evidence of worshipping on Sunday. In the Epistle to the Magnesians the word for "day" is completely absent from the Greek text. The more accurate translation would be "Lord's life" which is much more consitent with the context of his letter. Also the original epistle does not include "let every friend of Christ keep the Lord's day as a festival, the resurrection day." You have run two translations together, the letter you quote from, which I consider a forgery actually states "And after the observance of the Sabbath,let every friend of Christ keep the Lord's day as a festival, the resurrection day, the queen and chief of all the days."<br /><br />It is not Adventist that is closing their eyes to history.Arikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02268678005280108576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9194750015669984785.post-62806581955714700432013-06-04T09:48:56.536-04:002013-06-04T09:48:56.536-04:00Arik,
You seemed determined to always miss my poin...Arik,<br />You seemed determined to always miss my point. I know you are angry. I'm sorry my opinions irritate you. All I can say is that I have the best of intentions for you and all Adventists. God bless you Arik. May we, as brothers in Christ, have the courage to pray for unifying grace within the light of truth.Teresa Beemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11912526855851742840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9194750015669984785.post-84243493007963118162013-05-31T19:34:35.098-04:002013-05-31T19:34:35.098-04:00Funny thing, thirty years ago my wife was a Cathol...Funny thing, thirty years ago my wife was a Catholic, she looked around and also saw sexually and religiously abused,-in a word "wounded" children, still sees the same today. <br /><br /><br />Seems to me your expectations is what was not grounded in reality. On one hand you paint all of Adventism as failing because the Aunt Sue and Uncle Dan didn't bring "happy endings around every corner," but life in Catholicism you understand "Life is messy. Life doesn't come in a nice little package. Because of sin, our earthly experience will always be fraught with struggles with temptation, relationship struggles, physical and emotional struggles." <br /><br />To be quite honest with you I am simply not interested about what other Christians are saying about the Gospel, for that is where the church made its biggest mistake. Listening to mere uninspired men's (church father's) opinions and allegories of Scripture is what corrupted the church. Do you not think Scripture alone is sufficient to understand the Gospel? <br /><br />Picking up Scripture and reading Paul who said the church would experience a falling away and wolves would enter into the church not sparing the flock sounds more like a "loud siren" to me. So when I read your church father's and how they conflict with Scripture and with each other I think of Paul and his warning of deception, deception, deception! <br /><br /><br />And what history is Adventism closing it's eyes to? Conatantine? who used the power of the state to compel men to worship against the dictates of their conscience? What Gospel does that? And while we are at it please feel free to show where the Scripture condones the use of torture and murder to compel men to follow it? No, it's not Adventism that has it's head in the sand.<br /><br />I am glad your wine drinking and Friday night dancing has brought you your felt board paradise, but Paul is clear as to what sin is, it is the trangression of His law. The Catechism is very clear also, the Ten Commandments are still binding and obligatory, and since I see no Scriptural command to keep Sunday Holy, (please feel free provide me with evidence to the contrary) and history and your church make no mistake that Sunday sacredness came by way of the "church" well after Jesus lived on earth and the Apostles died, than I have no problem with concluding the Decalogue as given at Sinai is still in force and still defines what sin is. After all Paul did say the law was holy, just and good, same as Jesus. And I want to be like Him, Don't you?<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /> Arikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02268678005280108576noreply@blogger.com