tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9194750015669984785.post343470592583887973..comments2023-09-07T13:51:05.341-04:00Comments on From Seventh-day Adventism to Catholicism : Adventists, Righteousness by Faith and UnityTeresa Beemhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11912526855851742840noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9194750015669984785.post-77898992346525955812014-02-01T22:29:59.520-05:002014-02-01T22:29:59.520-05:00You make some great points here Arik. I would warn...You make some great points here Arik. I would warn you, however, to be careful with identifying all Evangelicals as teaching "once saved always saved." This concept tends to be a more Calvinist concept that not all evangelicals accept. For example Lutherans, Methodists, and Pentecostals reject once saved always saved. So its not fair to say all evangelicals teach justification only because not all evangelicals do. The Adventist understanding of the gospel is not an SDA invention, it is a Wesleyan-Armenian understanding that is shared in many other denominations besides our own.design trends https://www.blogger.com/profile/08193966612623003020noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9194750015669984785.post-66924574498940496142014-01-10T05:14:06.555-05:002014-01-10T05:14:06.555-05:00"One of the problems of Adventist's doctr..."One of the problems of Adventist's doctrines is that they state that Ellen White's writings are an ongoing source of authority and then they also state they believe in righteousness by faith."<br /><br />According to Kenneth Samples from the Christian Research Institute these are the two doctrines "traditional Adventism" needs to abandon or we will be "fully deserving of the title cult."<br /><br />Of righteousness by faih he says "Because this doctrine is so crucial to a proper understanding of law and gospel, their aberrant view of equating justification with sanctification leads to several other unbiblical concepts (lack of assurance, perfectionism, etc.)."<br /><br />Sanples is correct that though seeds had been planted of justificaion "only" righteousness by faith before the 1950's(santification coming later, and does not contribute to salvation) traditional Adventism (meaning the official Adventist position)believes justification and sanctification both are necessary as part of the born again experience. <br /><br />The Evangelical position of salvation by jusification only leads to the false doctrine of one saved always saved. <br /><br />While it is true that some within Adventism have taken the traditional Adventist position of righteousness by faith (justification and sancification as one act on God's part)to the extreme by making it into works oriented salvation (legalism) it is important that Adventist do not swing the pendulum too far the other way and adopt the false gospel of the Evangelicals justification only righteousness by faith. We as Adventist are not Evangelical Adventists!Arikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02268678005280108576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9194750015669984785.post-35771139529532135222014-01-07T09:11:49.024-05:002014-01-07T09:11:49.024-05:00"The evangelical definition of "faith al..."The evangelical definition of "faith alone" is that if anything is required outside of faith, then it isn't technically righteousness by faith alone."<br /><br />No, this is the Catholic version of righteousness by works. The "Evangelical" position of by faith alone, is justification only salvation which excludes sanctification (that comes later), meaning we can remain justified (legally declared innocent and/or forgiven) while committing known sin. Which amounts to "once saved always saved". <br /><br />The Adventist position is neither. Justification is not only declared but experienced. That what Jesus calls "born again" Paul calls "justified" ,the new birth does not follow justification, it is justification! It is not only the forgiveness of sin, it also is the reclaiming from sin. <br /><br />Just as justification is declared at the moment of conversion, so is sanctification! The person who is washed from sin, cleansed by the blood of Jesus (born again) is also sanctified in the very act. To be sanctified is to be set apart for holy use. So sanctification just like justification has two parts. Sanctification is being declared holy and being made holy. All of which is by the faith alone!<br /><br />What I find in the Christian world is predominately two schools of thought. Both parties (Catholic and Evangelical) put too much of a division between Justification/Sanctification. Though the terms can be defined separately, they constitute one act at the moment of conversion, not two. We can not have one without the other, and that is what I find in the Christian world. Catholic's emphasis is on sanctification (by works and faith) only, Evangelical's is on justification (by faith) only. <br /><br />The SDA church does not in any way teach Righteousness by Sabbath-keeping. Please show where I can find this doctrine.<br />Arikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02268678005280108576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9194750015669984785.post-29852087209441824552014-01-05T09:18:03.701-05:002014-01-05T09:18:03.701-05:00If interested in hearing the other side of the sto...If interested in hearing the other side of the story the following links may be of help. <br /><br />http://www.jesusadventismandi.com/2013/08/reclaiming-adventism-response-to.html<br /><br />http://www.jesusadventismandi.com/2013/04/the-sda-gospel-is-legalistic-isnt-it.html<br /><br />These articles wont convince someone who has already made up their mind about SDA theology but they will help those who are openly seeking.<br /><br />The truth is, read any and every old school Christian and you will see things in their books that, to our modern sensitive ears, appear to be legalistic. For example, John Bunyan, the author of pilgrims progress and champion of grace in his day (also authored Grace Abounding to the Chief of Sinners) believed that playing games and sports was a worldly sin that would cost your salvation. Even after he became enlightened by the gospel of grace he never retracted those beliefs. I wonder if Notre Dame would consider him a legalist? Then there was John Wesley who lived a life of extreme discipline and continued to do so even after he was enlightened according to the gospel of grace. In colonial America a person could be put in prison for kissing or holding their spouses hand in public on a Sunday because it was considered a worldly pleasure not to be pursued on the Sabbath. When Ellen White came along saying that we should take strolls out in nature on the Sabbath she was a liberal by comparison. Then there is the Bible. How many things did Jesus and the apostles say that appeared to be legalistic? I could string together a line of Bible verses that do so, top it off with a bit of James and make even Martin Luther question his salvation. <br /><br />As an SDA Christian and theologian there are two accusations against our church that I find terribly outdated. The first is that the SDA church is a cult and the second is that we are legalists. Those accusations are so yesterday I am surprised people still bring them up. But like my father always said, if you look for a fifth leg on a cat long enough you will find it.<br /><br />But you of all people should relate to that Teresa. There are countless books, websites, articles, and documentaries exposing the Catholic church from every angle imaginable. More than half of them are ridiculous.<br /><br />I have also found websites exposing the evils of the Baptist church, videos exposing John Calvin as a man who didn't even know his Bible, John Wesley as a man who admitted he wasn't even a Christian and blah blah blah. At the end of the day, regardless of who says what, we have to go back to the Bible and rest our case on that. I am an Adventist because our teachings, while not perfect, are the most consistent with the Bible. Whenever someone shows me something more consistent, Ill move along.<br /><br />Blessings Teresa! And a happy new year to you and Arthur.design trends https://www.blogger.com/profile/08193966612623003020noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9194750015669984785.post-54857149798756369982014-01-05T08:19:39.470-05:002014-01-05T08:19:39.470-05:00One of the problems of Adventist's doctrines i...One of the problems of Adventist's doctrines is that they state that Ellen White's writings are an ongoing source of authority and then they also state they believe in righteousness by faith. Okay… if you ignore a lot of what Ellen White writes and only read part of her writings I can agree those things will work together. However, if you read all of Ellen White, technically it isn't righteousness by faith unless you change the evangelical meaning of righteousness by faith. The evangelical definition of "faith alone" is that if anything is required outside of faith, then it isn't technically righteousness by faith alone. Faith plus anything does not equal RbFA. So then, Adventists say that the Sabbath with be a last day test of Christianity. Therefore it cannot be technically termed a faith based upon the evangelical definition. <br /><br />What Catholics teach is irrelevant to the subject. The premise we are working with is what ADVENTISTS teach. We can judge something according to truth and we can judge something according to the standards THEY have set up for themselves and the article is dealing with the second. (The two are not mutually exclusive, but are two ways of judging… just wanted to clarify that.) <br /><br />Teresa Beemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11912526855851742840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9194750015669984785.post-5518485588672514522014-01-05T06:47:52.354-05:002014-01-05T06:47:52.354-05:00Therefore, I began looking into the actual SDA doc...Therefore, I began looking into the actual SDA doctrine and discovered it did preach righteousness by sabbath-keeping. "<br /><br />Please show me an actual doctrine of the SDA Church that proves we are saved by Sabbath keeping.And speaking of Righteousness by faith has the church changed it's stance:<br /><br />CANON 12: "If any one shall say that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in the divine mercy pardoning sins for Christ's sake, or that it is that confidence alone by which we are justified ... let him be accursed"<br /><br />Canon 14: "If any one saith, that man is truly absolved from his sins and justified, because that he assuredly believed himself absolved and justified; or, that no one is truly justified but he who believes himself justified; and that, by this faith alone, absolution and justification are effected; let him be anathema."<br /><br />Canon 24: "If any one saith, that the justice received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works; but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof; let him be anathema."<br /><br />Canon 30: "If any one saith, that, after the grace of Justification has been received, to every penitent sinner the guilt is remitted, and the debt of eternal punishment is blotted out in such wise, that there remains not any debt of temporal punishment to be discharged either in this world, or in the next in Purgatory, before the entrance to the kingdom of heaven can be opened (to him); let him be anathema."<br /><br />Arikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02268678005280108576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9194750015669984785.post-12544744419791617212014-01-04T15:14:39.322-05:002014-01-04T15:14:39.322-05:00I am not a biblical scholar, but what commandment ...I am not a biblical scholar, but what commandment tells us to "unify"?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com